Oil paintings

[Former_Member]

I WAS just going to open my store and trying to sort this all out...

I am an oil painter....and although it was not my original intent for my paintings to be considered 'children's products" I suppose that a reasonable person could look at them and consider the content as children's decor.

On the flip side, since when is an oil painting a children's product, regardless of content? Is it all in marketing(??) So that's question one...

Two, if it is, by definition it contains paint, so I have to comply with paint laws. (This seems retarded when it comes to oil paintings..?) I've been on the CPSC site and I'm totally confused. Assuming I do, in one place, it looks like as long as I have the paint suppliers testing certificates that all their paint complies with the 90 ppm lead limit blah blah blah, I should be able to sell my art if I somehow figure out how to label it. Is this right?

because in another spot it looks like this wouldn't apply to oil paintings - since artist materials are specifically exempt from testing, I would have to test the product separately. (And, could I even get such certificates from the manufacturer since they are exempt? They advertise it as lead free, but I don't know what they've got to back that up.) Do I really have to send out an actual painting to get ground up for testing?

Even if I get all that sorted out, what about this bit that the labels must be permanent? All I could really do is put a sticker on the back, right???

I was so happy to see that this area doesn't seem saturated...not many paintings like mine out there. I guess now I know why: too much hassle.

Thoughts?

[Former_Member]

PS You can look at my banner for an idea what I'm currently painting. Haven't put an items in the store yet while I sort this out.

[LeafandYard]

Some of it depends on your prices too. An original at hundreds of dollars would not be considered a children's item where as a print for $15 might. Most people would not buy a $50 doll for their child to play with, but they might buy a $20 doll. Price is a factor in determining a children's product, and for your somewhat gray area, that might be the deciding factor that puts your paintings for general use (people of all ages, therefore not a children's product).

[schin]

True.. I would try acrylics too, I don't know, I think it seems healthier than oil paintings.
Or you can try selling prints of your work and save the originals for the serious collectors.
personally I wouldn't worry TOO much about it. After all, art should hang high on the ceiling, not in reach of kids to be able to chew on.

[Former_Member]

It all really depends upon the themes of your paintings, who they appeal to (children or adults?) and to who you are marketing them. If you are painting paintings for children - to be displayed in children's rooms you are going to fall under the requirements of CPSIA. Artist materials are not exempt and there has been no decision yet on what will happen about component testing. As of now, if you could get certificates of compliance from the paint manufacturers you would be covered under the Stay of Enforcement - which SEEMS to have been extended one more year. Oil paints may contain lead in their mixture for some colors so you are going to have to be very sure about their contents.

As to testing - yes, the test is a destructive test and each painting that uses a different combination of colors would have to be tested also. (Yes, it is insane.) Then any new lot of paints that you use - would begin the testing all over again. The law has been designed so that a small business or craftsperson has really no way to win here.

As to acrylics - there is no exemption for them either..

The best thing to do is paint paintings for adults and forget about the kids.

[LeafandYard]

pastperfect says:

which SEEMS to have been extended one more year.
------------

It was, quoted below:

"The Commission plans to keep the stay in effect for total lead
content in metal children's products and in non-metal children's
products tested pursuant to CPSC-CH-E1001-08, Standard Operating
Procedure for Determining Total Lead (Pb) in Children's Metal Products
or CPSC-CH-E1002-08, Standard Operating Procedure for Determining Total
Lead (Pb) in Non-Metal Children's Products, (section 101 of the CPSIA)
until February 10, 2011."

http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/frnotices/fr10/stay.html

[Former_Member]

re: acrylics- they're just not the same to work with, and if it doesn't alter the testing documentation requirements I don't see the point. Frankly, even if it did, I'd be reluctant to switch. I just don't like them. :)

Oils historically did contain lead. (Some still do, like 'flake white' - and this is why adult artist materials are exempt from the lead content requirement when marketed for use by adults. Some people love their flake white and lobbied for the materials exemption (you can buy flake white at Michaels).) But these days, most colors are available in ACMI non-toxic varieties and that's what I use. Everything I have is labeled as lead free non-toxic. NO idea if the manufacturers would maintain appropriate certification of their lead free status, though, since they are exempt from the independent testing requirement when selling adult artist supplies.

Regardless, my understanding was that even if my paints are individualy non-lead containing, once I combine them into another product I would have to have the product tested. If someone decides they are a childrens product, which I'm still not certain about. Seems pretty stupid, hopefully that will get sorted out during the stay of enforcement.

[BrianMunceJewelry]

I agree - telling a painter to use acrylics instead of oil is like telling someone to use enamel on their car instead of lacquer
most folks can tell the diff between an earl schieb enamel paint job and 30 coats of candy apple clear lacquer-

[Former_Member]

i also have some paintings that can be for children, i am also an oil painter and a spraypaint artist. im sure that the adult that buys an oil painting for x amount of dollars.they will frame it and hang it on the wall at about eye level which is anywhere form 5 to 6 feet. i dont think children will be playing with it. when your oil painting is fully cured and dryed it is in no way hazardous..... i think?

[Former_Member]

eg. i wouldn't worry about it too much.

Cheers,

Tye

[SkyviewClay]

If you dig deep enough into the regulations, you will see that Section 16 CFR section 1303 is still in effect. In it, artist's paints are exempt. I would not worry to much if I were you. :)

http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title16/16-2.0.1.2.45.html

[Former_Member]

Word!

[Former_Member]

Just to clarify there is no stay of testing for any product that contains paint, regardless of age of the intended customer. The 90 PPM lead limit is for all consumer products not just children's items.
When dealing with an artistic painting aimed for the enjoyment of an adult there is an clause for the use of paints over the limit (basically so museums, galleries, & the rich would not have to destroy masterpieces and could sell or trade them at a later date), but when it comes to the use of paint in an art piece aimed for the enjoyment of a child the piece would still have to meet the 90PPM limit for lead as well as certain other CPSIA.
The CPSIA is a very confusing piece of legislation, with it many subsections concerning the levels in this or that if added to this or that type of product it is easy to warp your mind. Try reading the law it self, (text link) http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ314.110 or (PDF link) http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=110_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ314.110.p... . If the language confuses you, as it does to many of us, and you really wish to pursue this line of merchandised art then you may want to consult a lawyer to interpret it for you. The SBA or state's art council may be able to refer you to one that will do the consult for free or a greatly reduced fee.

Here's some reading to get you started on understanding what interpretations the CPSC is making in regards to the CPSIA.

The main CPSC website
http://www.cpsc.gov/

The CPSIA main website
http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsia.html

For the current full list of raw materials offically exempt from lead testing please read http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/frnotices/fr09/leaddeterminationsfinalrule-draft.pdf

CPSIA guidance for small businesses/crafters includes a quick look guide Table : B exempt raw material list
http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/smbus/cpsiasbguide.pdf

An update on the stay of 3rd party testing
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml10/10083.html

Webcasts for the 2 day public workshops in Dec 2009
http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/cpsiatesting.html

Tracking labels
http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/sect103policy.pdf

CPSIA's FAQ page
http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/sect103.html#103q8

The CPSC's age determination guideline http://www.cpsc.gov/BUSINFO/adg.pdf

A timeline from the CPSIA http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/rulemaking.pdf

Information on how this law is retro-active http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/advisory/317.pdf

Standard Operating Procedure for Determining Total Lead (Pb) in
Children’s Metal Products (Including Children’s Metal Jewelry) found at http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/CPSC-CH-E1001-08.pdf

Even non-metal components must be tested using destructive digestive testing read more here http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/CPSC-CH-E1002-08.pdf

[Former_Member]

The toxicity in paint has more to do with the pigment than the binder. Oil paint uses oil as a binder, usually lindseed (comes from the flax plant, rich in omega 3s!), whereas acrylic paint uses acrylic (plastic) binder. Like you said, if you buy flake white, that has lead in the pigment. Cadmiums, whether in oil or acrylic, are toxic to inhale, etc. etc.

Plus, I don't think people are going to be handling paintings like they would toys or purses (hopefully!) Good luck with everything. Nice paintings!

[Former_Member]

One more thing to consider, if you haven't shipped paintings before, the smaller the better! I am a painter, though at this point I'm not selling my paintings on etsy. But shipping prices can get pretty expensive pretty fast. Then there's the whole thing with insuring paintings. Supposedly you can only insure the work of art for the materials cost, not how much it sold for :(

Wow, I'm really not trying to be discouraging! I'll stop writing now :)

[BrookeHowie]

Just wanted to say to all oil painters. I have just been diagnosed with Waldenstrom's Disease (a rare form of lymphoma). I have been using oils for over 30 years and even though I can't prove it, there is probably a link from all the fumes and paint I always had on myself.
Just wanted to warn everyone and be careful!

[DancingWindDesigns]

I was skimming over post titles when I discovered this thread. I just want to chime in and say that if anybody is letting their child chew on a work of art, such as an oil painting, they need to have the child removed from their care because they are not responsible parents.

I am so sorry that so many people are having to deal with this law.

[CultofMedea]

acrylics is not healthier- its plastic!its all toxic unless you actually make your own paints or source from a ntaural paint company

[darklingwoods]

from what I see in your banner I don't think you would be limited to children's work at all. Of course someone could hang in a childs room but you didn't make it as a play thing or even specifically for children.

I wouldn't worry either :)

[Former_Member]

Marking..thank you all for being so helpful. I am so sorry that you guys have had to go through this crap! What a mess this has been for you guys!

...................................Trudy

[courtneyoquist]

A painting belongs on a wall anyways! It is not a toy, and it is not worn on the body.

[Former_Member]

ha, ,, yes as above everyone's idea, i have never considered this point before ,
i sold paintings ,and do commisions ,
made many portrait for children, but never been asked if they were suitable for a child, all by adult .

so , dont need worry .

[Former_Member]

One of the problems with this law is the people that wrote the original bill that evolved into the CPSIA seem to have very little understanding of how lead is really introduced into a child's enviroment. They where equally concerned with things like posters, mobiles, draperies, and furniture shedding lead "dust" into a child's room as with lead being transferred from hand to mouth by touching a tainted toy, book, necklace, or garment. The government listen more closely to consumer watchdog groups that in the past that have in some cases erroreously reported to the CPSC about items they felt where in violation of the old standards, rather than scientifically proof from it's other agencies like the CDC about the root causes of lead in a child's enviroment. While drafting the law the only manufaturers of children's product invited to give opinions and testimony be the bill was signed into law where the major toy companies that originally caused many of the recalls in 2007. So hence we now have a law that encompasses ALL children's consumer products and many regular products that contain paint rather than one that actually seeks out the reasons that are the more common causes of lead poisoning in todays society.

[Former_Member]

DancingWindDesigns says:
I was skimming over post titles when I discovered this thread. I just want to chime in and say that if anybody is letting their child chew on a work of art, such as an oil painting, they need to have the child removed from their care because they are not responsible parents.

I am so sorry that so many people are having to deal with this law.

-----------------------

exactly! I love how they are finding problems with this but not with the paints you put on the walls, the fumes coming from new carpets, mattresses etc. that are also in kids rooms and environments. All because those things aren't specifically marketed towards children? it's all so bogus.

[Former_Member]

I've never heard of a child eating an oil painting.