Hobby Lobby, Michaels, Walmart etc

[Former_Member]

So what is the deal with those types of stores? Are they exempt from having to test things like hot glue (is hit glue exempt?), beads and rhinestones?

What about barrettes and the ribbon they sell?

These are questions a few friends of mine and myself have. One of them asked the store manager and he himmed and hawwwed and said he didn't know. Didn't refer her to anyone/place who might know (higher up/in the corporate office or where ever she should go to).

Thanks,

[Former_Member]

Go straight to Walmart Home Office, Bentonville, Arkansas. That is where the buck stops. Local Walmart stores will not say anything they don't have specific permission for, unless it is to do the Walmart cheer.

We used to live in Rogers, 6 miles south of Bentonville, and ever since Sam Walton died, the store has not had the same focus on the customer. He would have a fit at the state of the attitudes in the company now. May the force be with you!

[knitwit4ever]

It is most likely a question of who the product is PRIMARILY intended for, angelbabyz.

If the primary user is age 12 or younger, then the products fall under the CPSIA regulations and must be exempt or tested appropriately.

If the primary user is older than 12, or if the product is used by all ages, the CPSIA regulations do not apply.

Ribbon? Probably general use, not just for kids. Some is exempt, but not all kinds. (Might be CPSIA-subject if it were decorated with kid-specific graphics.)

Hot glue? Not exempt, but not for kids, either.

You get the idea?

[Former_Member]

Thanks guys! I will go right to that office ( well, call them that is lol)!

I know the rules for the ages of 12 and under and such....but how does it work for walmart and other stores? Is it that they don't have to have proof of testing because anyone buying say hot glue, can use it for millions of reasons? Same with my other examples? How about Hobby Lobby and Michaels? What are the rules they have to follow for things like that?

Are these stores exempt because the net is so wide? I know what i need to do, but I want to know if THEY have to test?

[Paperika]

I think you need to call their corporate offices and find that out. The forums really isn't the right place for it.

[Former_Member]

angelbabyz.
As the CPSIA is currently written a retailer of any size is not the one responsible for paying for CPSIA testing to be done, unless they are the direct importer of a privately labeled item for that is marketed for or preceived by the general public or as defined by the government's age determination guidelines as being primarily for a child under 13. The biggest thing a retailer is responsible for and can be fined on by the government is making sure that their head office has each primarily for a child product's a GCC on file and ready for government inspection upon request. So when dealing with a national chain store at the local level store personnel may have no idea about what your even talking about in regards to the CPSIA, unless a specific recall notice is issued for a specific product. Also retailer or supplier is not liable to give out copies of these GCCs to the general public or even a wholesale client, these may need to be obtained direct from the manufacturer of the product.

Under the government's guidelines a crafting supply or general use product in and of itself that is not market with children in mind or for the primarily use by a child item thus when sold as is not subject to CPSIA testing. If the product itself specifically says, pictures on the packaging or marketing, or by characterization used as being appropriate for a child then it would be subject to the manufacturer paying to test it at an appropriate lab to certify it, and the retailer requesting the paperwork on it as proof. So a item that has an equal amount of uses on an adult finished product may or may not have testing done by the manufacturer, but if the reatiler doesn't feel that the product fits the criteria as primarily for a child product and do not advertize it in way way that might imply it is for a child they may not have that paperwork on file even when it's readily available.

That's one of the reasons you will be seeing on packages supplies and general use items, like hot glue and plain barrettes, warnings that say something like "This is not a toy. For use by persons 14 years and older." With that type of broad warning it can infer as well that items made from these products are not meant to be added to, alter, or modified to make it part of an item that is for a child as well. Yes some company's are doing that to cover their backside because they don't want to go through the hassle of testing or know that the product would fail CPSIA testing, but their are others companies that truely believe their products should never be associated with children.

[Former_Member]

Makes sense jewlerydesignsbyME. Thanks so much for your time!

[Former_Member]

It bugs me, but I take those warnings to mean "don't buy this." My products here don't use general craft supplies, but I often want to make things for my daughter, such as hair clips. I went to a craft store and the teeny snap clips, clearly designed for baby hair, were labeled to the effect that they were a craft supply, not intended for use by children. If the manufacturer isn't willing to state that they are lead free and safe, then they probably aren't.

[GatheringSplendor]

Good read-thanks

[Former_Member]

I was in Micheals the other day looking at jewllery supplies. On the back of one piece it has a disclaimer saying it was not intended for those under 14. Another piece stated it was lead free and complied with regulations in CA.

I don't think stores are expected to test, but the manufacturer should if the product is intended for kids. I can't see supply manufacturers incurring these costs for general items such as glue.

Good Luck! It can all be very confusing.

[SparxsDesigns]

I am wondering if all this testing is why the craft supplies are climbing in price? I bet so.

[Former_Member]

KinderCotton says:
It bugs me, but I take those warnings to mean "don't buy this." My products here don't use general craft supplies, but I often want to make things for my daughter, such as hair clips. I went to a craft store and the teeny snap clips, clearly designed for baby hair, were labeled to the effect that they were a craft supply, not intended for use by children. If the manufacturer isn't willing to state that they are lead free and safe, then they probably aren't.

*********************************

It is not the case that if the manufacturer isn't willing to state that they are lead free and safe, then they probably aren't. The costs of testing are prohibitive for many businesses, even larger ones because they may have more products to test. They can't say for sure they're CPSIA compliant without the testing. And since the products we're talking about are craft products and not children's products, they aren't required to test.

[Former_Member]

KinderCotton says:
It bugs me, but I take those warnings to mean "don't buy this." My products here don't use general craft supplies, but I often want to make things for my daughter, such as hair clips. I went to a craft store and the teeny snap clips, clearly designed for baby hair, were labeled to the effect that they were a craft supply, not intended for use by children. If the manufacturer isn't willing to state that they are lead free and safe, then they probably aren't.
..........

There's no such thing as a teeny snap clip that's "clearly designed" for babies. Even if they're lead free, if they're "teeny" they're still a choking hazard & not for children under three.

[veryvintage]

ehhh.. Michaels doesn't follow any of those rules unless they are things marketed directly towards kids. (ie. kids crafting kits)

[Former_Member]

I wouldn't think that the stuff at the craft stores is tested unless they are those crafting kids that are actually labelled as being for kids. For everything else if it doesn't look like a toy, it's real easy for a company to just legally say they're for people 12 and over, even if they're really not.

[Former_Member]

Michaels asks their vendors to provide tests, and requires them to use a specific testing lab to do it.

Really, by law if the item is produced domestically then the manufacturer is responsible for doing the testing and providing the General Certificate of Compliance. If the item is imported, then that responsibility falls on the importer.

There are other laws you have to comply with as a manufacturer or importer besides the CPSIA. The requirements for lead limits in surface coatings and for lead limits in children's jewely have been around for a while.

It seems to be getting a little clearer and simpler as we all have time to figure out what the best way is to comply with the new regulations.

I handle this for a big craft company that sells to the chains, and really it's not too bad for us. Once I got all the requirements straight and found a good lab to deal with it was not a big deal. I use a lab in Hong Kong, even to test US made materials, because it is so much cheaper (SO much cheaper). But I know there's a different set of problems with handmade, especially clothing.

My experience with the CPSC is that they are trying very hard to make it as easy as possible, especially for small businesses. Right now we're allowed to test individual components instead of having to test every finished item, for instance.

So I think by February when we all have to comply with testing for children's products the requirements will be a lot more user friendly.

[nenafaye]

All manufacturers are supposed to test their products. Walmart buys from them and if there is ever a problem with a product from their store they will handle it with a claim back to the manufacturer who made the product.

[Former_Member]

Oh, forgot to mention - some of the chains are requiring testing on all products, because they feel that any product in the craft store could be used by a child.

[Former_Member]

As a person who has a day job creating a children's product that goes into Wal-Marts and Targets and Penny's (etc...) I can tell you that we (as a company) test rigorously, but so does Wal-Mart and others - Wal-Mart to a degree that is staggering considering the amount of product they carry - but all of them are different. You'd need to contact each individual retailer to learn their policies on product testing.

I realize this doesnt answer the craft store issue, but I imagine they are similar.

[Former_Member]

Just remember that there is not provision in the law that if you buy at the retail level that the store or even the manufacturer / importer must provided you with any CPSIA compliancy paperwork. Even when dealing direct with the manufacturer they need not provide you with any of the CPSIA related testing materials unless you are purchasing direct from them as a wholesale customer with a registered business. Even then you may need to remind the manufacturer to send the paperwork for each product you ordered with every shipment.

So keep that in mind when you go to a retailer of any type even when a crafting supply product states that it is lead safe or non-toxic on the package header, that means you still need to get a GCC or copy of the actual testing report for your records or send the component out for testing personally. A proclamation on the packaging is not enough proof of testing for the CPSIA because it does not spell out exactly what testing procedures where done to say a product is compliant and to whose standard it was held to, those statement do not mean the item is compliant under the CPSIA. There are different agencies within the government (FDA, CDC, EPA, OSHA, etc) as well as private sector assoications (ASTM, AMA, APA, AAP, ANMA, etc) that have completely different chemical and elemental levels requirements to call something lead safe or non-toxic for under their rules, compared to what the CPSIA compliancy requires, all using different testing methods to detect what level or exposure risk there is. So all things that say they are "safe" are not created equally safe, nor does that mean that they are safe to the same degree as the CPSIA wants.

[Former_Member]

I suppose that they aren't selling them with intent to go to kids under 13 years old so they don't have to be the ones that test.
In my book, poison is poison, no matter who it's around and should be an illegal component.

[Former_Member]

Amen LollyBopBaby. I agree.

I wish they would loosen up a bit on CPSIA. I mean, kids need to be safe, but we little folk don't mass produce like big companies! So maybe they need to make us buy from only GCC suppliers, but make a few exceptions on it!

Some small changes HAVE TO HAPPEN! I don't want to see hundreds of thousands of people go out of business, it's already happening!

I still have hope, even if it IS a law already. It ain't over until it's over. They've already changed testing fabric and the rules on that a few times. Maybe it was before the law was passed, I don't know.

A girl can have hope. Now maybe someone will tell me there's an ice cubes chance in you know what that anything will change....but something has to give a bit. IT just HAS TO.

Too bad we can't get a "big name" star or advocate on our side to rattle their cages at least. Just grabbing at straws. If it's true that the Democrats are the ones being stubborn and not backing down (pretty much) I am ashamed of "my people"! : ( I haven't said that in a long long long time. I am sending letters, but I'm one person.

I hope everyone in the crafting business is letting THEIR friends and family know about this law, so that they can speak out and send letters. I am SHOCKED at how many people DON'T know about this law. But there are some that think it doesn't apply to them, or....are ignoring it I think. I think though, if people start asking for proof and it gets to be more and more people are going to have to do it. It's better to change now then later when all your customers want it, right? Or is it ok if people aren't saying if they are compliant or not? It's confusing.

People need to bombard the commission and others with letters, even if it's been done already a thousand times since 2008.

[Former_Member]

angelbabyz says:
I wish they would loosen up a bit on CPSIA. I mean, kids need to be safe, but we little folk don't mass produce like big companies! So maybe they need to make us buy from only GCC suppliers, but make a few exceptions on it!
......

Yes and no. I believe the same rules should apply to everyone. But I also believe that it makes no sense to make manufacturers (of any size) retest components that have already been tested.

It's been scientifically proven that there are no safe amounts of lead and phthalates, especially for children. Would it make the most sense to start solving that problem by going after the largest sources of exposure? Yes. Does CPSIA do that? No, it doesn't have the authority to. (If you think the toy industry has good lobbyists, you don't want to meet the ones for the biggest industrial polluters!)
Anyway, point was- I'm kinda creeped out the folks around here who say (not in just so many words, of course) "It should be okay for ME to poison children because I'll only poison a few of them, but bigger companies have the potential to poison a lot more so they need to be stopped!"

If this testing is all unnecessary, it's not just hurting the little guys. I work for what would probably be considered a medium-sized if not large company. Some of the things we make are for kids. To give one (intentionally vague) example- there's a particular item we would like to produce 1000 pieces of. According to our own in-house quality control dept., there are 16 different tests it has to pass. And the average cost of each test so far is almost $1500. That adds $24 to the cost of EVERY PIECE that we were hoping would retail for $9.99! can't do it. there's no point.

Even a lot of the big companies are bowing out of the children's market. Which means fewer choices for consumers and fewer jobs for all the people involved in the industry. When it comes to that, we're all "little guys".

[Former_Member]

amyblandford says:

"It should be okay for ME to poison children because I'll only poison a few of them, but bigger companies have the potential to poison a lot more so they need to be stopped!"
-----------------
Yeah, I so don't think that is ok. I hope my message didn't come across that way.

It's true, I know, there are no safe levels of lead.

I'm not saying things shouldn't be safe or we should get everything we want passed to law. But seriously, the little guy will go out of business before the big guy...almost always I think. The main reason....with the big guys, they might have things they can do ( good or bad) to cut back on other costs not related to testing, to help offset the cost a bit. I'm just saying, they might have options the little guy doesn't. One option most of us little guys don't have, is cutting back on employees (Keep it Holy now, I'm just using it as an example)or find a cheaper distributer/source etc. I understand what you said though, that it costs the big guys more to test usually.

I wish they would just do something that helps us but still makes things MORE safe. I just think, it's never going to be perfect...but for crying out loud we aren't living in the 1970's! Things have gotten better, but yes, you have to police some companies as we have found out in the past.

I just don't think that EVERYTHING and EVERYONE should be under the same umbrella result. Should we all have safe items? Yes. A little poison is still poison, yes, I agree. But I also FIRMLY believe something can be done to help the little guy with this new law, so they don't have to close their doors. I don't care what it is, just so they relieve us a bit.

Do I have a solution, pffft, no. I wish.

I'm surprised though, that the blog that you all have started with compliant suppliers, isn't bigger when it comes to ribbons and other things. : ( So many places I would LOVE to buy from, but I have to wait to see if places decide to become compliant. : ( I mean if there are people who are just not doing it because they don't think it applies to them, I predict, maybe not now, but in the near future, if this law stays the same, that there will be a huge demand for "compliant" suppliers and not just crafting areas.

[chicfragments]

marking