Curious...Any Actual Harm?

[#1]

I've been really frustrated and overwelmed by all of the CPSIA regulations! Personally, I think that the consumer should decide what items/materials they would like to purchase. Anyway...

I am just curious. Have there been any documented cases of children acutally being harmed by lead (in the few toys that have had lead paint) or by phylates?

[LeafandYard]

That's another point! If you buy a plain white Gerber Onesie, you know that Gerber tests it in accordance with the law. If you use regular thread to embroider a pretty design on it, you still have to test that item that has already been tested because it has metal snaps and you altered it. The finished product must be tested and, as the law is written, it doesn't matter if you use a component that you already know is tested, because you wouldn't be able to buy it in the first place if it wasn't compliant. The law should make an allowance for this because testing the same thing more than once is frivolous and wasteful and doesn't add any kind of safety to an already safe product.

The people who blatantly ignore the law, or hope feigning ignorance will save them, do bother me. They're not even trying to comply. I'm trying to find a way around it myself, but only in that I plan to launch a line of Gnomes for Kids that is made from 100% exempt from testing materials. Hopefully, the clear difference between the adult collectible version and the ok-for-little-ones-to-suck-on version will save my Gnomes. I don't make toys for kids, but this law is forcing me to (by means of altering my product to be child-suitable) where it is forcing others to shut down. I'm not ready to give up before I really get started and I don't think safety is unimportant. I think this law can take a different approach and still do what it's trying to do.

[ItzFitz]

thats an interesting way to work around it actually..
make a specific kid-friendly section..

it is very suspicious that things that have been tested to be in the market initially will have to have those same components retested as well as the new ones-again its a thinly veiled way for the gov. to make that money. what other reason is there..?
in your example, gerber already did this testing. paid that money. now here you have to go again to get it tested again and pay more of that money.
i do believe when you are using items that have existing testing and you are able to obtain these sheets-that should really be enough.

lilgirlca- thats very true, there are plenty of things in our homes and touched or used by kids on a regular basis that do not have to be tested..
the cpsia seems to be doing anything it thinks of as opposed to thinking *about* it..
the results havent been and will not be good..

[LeafandYard]

ItzFitz says:
thats an interesting way to work around it actually..
make a specific kid-friendly section..
------

Thank you. I'm hoping that's a thinking outside the box kind of solution. Other people think "close" and I think "embrace the kid's items!" My 18 and 16 month old godsons are testing them for durability (which was one of my original concerns).

The thing about what has already been tested in my example is that they have to comply with the law too. Maybe my eye supplier does not because eyes are not for kids, but kids clothing is, so we know that product has been tested. When a finished product is also used as a supply, that should be enough. That's logical. But, the government doesn't know what logic is half the time.

About the lead that children are exposed to day-to-day: I had to sign something when I moved into the condo that I'm renting that states I am aware that it was built before 1970 and it may (as in highly likely) have lead paint in it. Why are there no regulations to remove this kind of threat? If it was an issue (no kids in the house, so not really an issue for current tenants), it would be on me to get permission from my landlord to remove the lead paint and paint the walls fresh and lead-free. This is a burden of safety that is placed on the consumer, me as the renter of the lead-infested condo. Where is the line of consumer responsibility drawn?

[bobbinalong]

I am still wanting to make ragdolls but am not sure - not sure if I can, if I must test them, etc. So I'm in a holding pattern. I wonder how much business by Etsy sellers was lost this year - just waiting to hear we may have another Stay - now that Christmas is over. Thank you very much!

I was watching a PBS documentary last night about Mrs. Root who is the wife of the man who started Coca Cola. She would travel with him all during her life and they would collect things. For the fun of it. She is opening a museum with many of the items in Daytona, or it may be open. But she has many quilts, teddy bears, dolls. Fantastic collection. She wants children, and grandchildren to enjoy them. Don't you feel that this CPSIA is going to destroy part of our history in this country all in the name of "safety". There will be years of void in crafted items. History will look back and there will just be an empty time.

I just feel that if the same items and materials can be purchased at fabric stores and craft stoes with no testing, etc., then making an item from those materials and selling it should be on the same playing field. I wish more people in Congress and the CPSC knew something about crafting and handmade. Or the handmade history of our country. Or the part where it was with pride that we made items at home and sold them. It has been a tradition.

I look at all the things kids were getting for Christmas. Laptops, electronic games of all kinds, computers - so they can do their homework. Cars, homes, schools are full of wireless devices. Do we really know how safe these items are. Manufacturers place them on the market at a breakneck speed. How thoroughly have they been tested? Oh, that's right, they are busy with wanting to test my ragdolls.

[LeafandYard]

Have you heard of the Japanese Friendship Dolls? It was an international outreach program in 1927 where Japan and the US exchanged dolls. The US received 58 dolls from Japan, many of them were lost, put away and forgotten, or destroyed during WWII and only 45 have since been accounted for. If a random thrift store happens across one of these beauties, they can't sell it because of the new law (remember my previous comment about "dolls"). Those missing 13 dolls might be a bit of history that we never will recover. As a doll collector, that makes me very sad.

[bobbinalong]

That is sad, Fyrecreek. More than sad, it is disgusting. When do we get to the point that we stand up for our rights. And not let some law that the government has been three years in writing and still hasn't gotten it right, control our lives.

Whenever you read through the CPSIA documents, you will see hints of extending the rules on upward in the crafting chain. That scares me. I think it will be a matter of time until they creep upward. If they think they can, they will.

[Former_Member]

Fyrecreek says:
Have you heard of the Japanese Friendship Dolls? It was an international outreach program in 1927 where Japan and the US exchanged dolls. The US received 58 dolls from Japan, many of them were lost, put away and forgotten, or destroyed during WWII and only 45 have since been accounted for. If a random thrift store happens across one of these beauties, they can't sell it because of the new law (remember my previous comment about "dolls"). Those missing 13 dolls might be a bit of history that we never will recover. As a doll collector, that makes me very sad.
-------------
Those would be considered collectibles, not children's items

[Former_Member]

True SugarAndSpice it is a collectable and not subject to the CPSIA because it should be valuable. My only question is did the thrift store know what a classic find they had or did they just think it was an old child's doll and selling it as such? If the person that wants to resell something like that but doen't realise what they have they are going to just look at the general perception of the product and not delve into the deeper facts. In Fyrecreek's case she knew it's a collectable that is being tracked because she collects dolls, but how is the store clerk suppose to know that unless they have the same interests as Fyrecreek.

[LeafandYard]

jewelrydesignsbyME says:

My only question is did the thrift store know what a classic find they had or did they just think it was an old child's doll and selling it as such?
----

That's it exactly. Many of the dolls that have been accounted for are owned by private collectors who found them as toys in random thrift stores. I only know about them at all because Idaho has their doll on display at the museum in Boise. If the dolls have been separated from their accessories or original Kimono, only a trained eye would know that they don't fall under the realm of the law. Which means finding any of the missing ones in this fashion would be impossible if thrift stores can't sell them.

[ItzFitz]

heres another thing to add to the pile.
safety helmets.

i never grew up wearing one when i rode my bike, with or without training wheels! if i fell and hurt myself, i learned how not to fall, or try to at least..
and im sure someone will jump in and say how dare i, some little kid fell and snapped his neck and died and that wouldnt have happened if he was mandated to wear a helmet.. yeah.
well, its getting to the point to me that unless you wrap your kid up in bubblewrap and send them out into the world, things happen! nothing is unavoidable and yes, terrible things happen.
so the law steps in and now the kida have to be covered head to toe with shields and guards and helmets and whatnot..
similar to how some schools and teams ive heard dont have a team that 'loses' - its too detrimental to the children..
really?? its funny cause all im seeing with kids ive know, in the family, in the neighborhood.. are kids and teens and kids in their 20's who are of the mind that nothing should go wrong, nothing bad could ever happen to them and they deserve all they want of anything..

bottom line, the law should not be steping in where its a parents business to monitor and make personal decisions for their families.. and gudelines are important, but not when they go so far as to take away any consumer, parental and personal responsibility and specifically hinder the development and growth of small american businesses and the only one who can comply with such astronomical fees are of course big businesses who at this point are hardly american based.. and then people wonder why there are no jobs to be had or to *create* in america..
not good people!

one of my items i sell is handpainted wall art on wood. wood is apparently exempt, however because i paint it, it has to be tested. every paint has to be tested.
i have tons, tons of colors of paint. lets say 100 bottles. i have to pay around $60 per paint to get it tested..? and when i buy a new one that has to get tested..?
and thats just the beginning of the things i sell and the components involved.. i hang them on ribbons, i have 40 spools, they have to get tested.. i sew felt stuffies, the felt has to get tested. the threads used, tested. 50 different threads.
its just irrational to go thru all this to be able to sell a $25 piece..

what can be done about all this? cause i can complain and whine all day if i was allowed to, but what can we do to bring attention to this?
who do we write? who will care...??? ive seen some organizations and posted here whos heard of it and like 2 people responded about it and the background of it..
so are we all complaining or should we speak up..

if we got rid of the darn orange gg link - we can do this!!!

[ItzFitz]

sorry for the whole helmet-thing.. got way off topic.. !

[bobbinalong]

The helmet thing - I understand. We have raised 3 sons and a daughter. They are all grown now but I think back to the times that they were growing up and we would have gone nuts following just the helmet deal. One son is in his 40's and is still riding his BMX bike for fun, just because he loves it and it is such good exercise.

The thing is that so many Etsy shops have fought this CPSIA for the past two years. We have written, we have phoned, we have done TV and radio interviews. It is frustrating, we are tired, but we haven't given up. I never will because I think it is wrong to destroy crafts and a lot of what we sell is crafting, creating from our own mind. It is a tradition, our grandmothers and great-grandmothers did it, and I feel it should be carried forth for future generations and not be suffocated by testing and poorly written laws.

[isgood]

About the helmet thing. I have kids so I think maybe new stories about this are more on my radar, but there are conflicting issues a work. Kids who fall or are hit by a car when riding bikes, die from injuries that would have been prevented if they had only worn a helmut. I hear about these kind of accidents with some regularity but less frequently now that the mandatory helmet laws took effect. On the other hand, studies have shown that car drivers are more careless about bike riders who are wearing helmets. Here's an interesting take on the subject.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/04/bike-helmets-helmet-laws.php

As for kids toys and the lead and phthalates dangers, I believe it's important to do better when you know better. Kids need protection and parents don't know or can't tell what is inside the chemical makeup of toys. Basic consumer protections are a necessary component of a civilized society. In 3rd world countries that don't have these protections, people die all the time from consuming antifreeze and other poisons they didn't know had been used in the products they purchased. Consumers need protection from greed and profit motives on the part of business.

What really burns me though is that in the US, the companies who were responsible for the mass recalls of lead painted products stand to benefit the most from the new laws. Mattel, the biggest importer of these recalled toxic goods does not have to use 3rd party testing and in fact owns the most of the testing labs where the goods of other toys manufactures will have to go to get certification! Oh the irony!

For small manufacturers, I agree that the component testing aspect is the part that really needs to be examined closely and changed.