Am I the only one that's just completely confused at this point?

[#1]

I thought I had my head around what was going on yesterday. With the new announcements today I'm completely lost again.

http://cpsia-central.ning.com/profiles/blogs/cpsc-votes-to-reject-nam
http://cpsia-central.ning.com/profiles/blogs/court-overturns-cpsc-advisory

1. Does the special requirements for "Lead Paint" apply only to toys that are painted with paint that contains some lead (i.e. are we testing lead-based paint to make sure that it's not got too much lead), or does it apply to any item with any paint on it?

It's been illegal for years now to sell paint in the US that doesn't conform to the older cpsc requirements, so if I'm manufacturing my product in the states I can't even GET paint with high levels of lead in it.

I sell toys that are painted (with upwards of 9 colors of paint!). I can show a certificate from the paint manufacturer that the paint was 3rd party tested (maybe not an "officially approved" test facility yet) and complies to the new law.
I can't tell at this point whether a) I'm required to still have 3rd party testing for my final products now, b) I'm not required to have 3rd party testing yet but will have to in August, or c) I'm not required to now, or August, but probably will at the end of the year if nothing else changes.

2. I sell custom toys. As in, the customer orders it, I make it, it's one of a kind, and I'll never make another. I make it with the same wood and paint I make everything else with, but am I actually expected to get that specific toy tested by a 3rd party before I send it to my customer?

3. Phthalates... how in the world am I supposed to test for phthalates? How am I supposed to know if the nylon or rayon cord I use contains phthalates? The manufacturers don't even know, and I don't think there's an official approved test process for it yet.

4. I recycled crayons. Art products have had strict regulations for years, all of the crayons I use are ASTM-D certified. I can't even THINK of a way to test every single cup of crayon wax I've sorted and melted down, let along testing every single crayon I pour. How on earth would they be tested? Do they have to be?

Furthermore, how the heck am I supposed to put a batch number on a crayon? I make a different batch for every 10 or so crayons, am I supposed to somehow create a batch number for each one? Is putting the date on the crayon box sufficient?

5. Do I have to shut down all manufacture/sale of my children's products come Tuesday? I have no idea at this point! Yesterday I was sure I was okay until the end of this year. I am certain my products contain no lead (even though I can't prove it with official testing yet), and I didn't think the phthalate thing was an issue yet. Today I simply have no idea.

6. The requirements for labelling are confusing me too... I thought at some point I saw a form for what had to be included but I can't find it now. I make blocks, is every block in a set supposed to be labeled with batch number/manufacturer/date, etc, or just the packaging? I can't even figure out for sure what pieces of information have to be there... or do they just have to be with the shipment? (I manufacture and retail)

Any comments would be appreciated.

[Former_Member]

VintageEmbellishment says:
Of course we are all confused:)
The people who wrote this law, passed this law, and are supposed to enforce this law plus the groups that support it are confused ....that is why we are confused....They need to scrap this law, it is obvious there is no "fixing" it!
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And it's getting more confusing by the day.

[Former_Member]

SugarAndSpice....Amen!!!

[Former_Member]

A big second AMEN !!!! Sugar and Spice! Scrap the darn thing!

[Former_Member]

This reminds me of education. Anyone ever been a teacher? This is the kind of ..."stuff" ....we went through every year. ALL BUNK!

[krtwood]

"Certification based on testing by an accredited laboratory is still required for painted children’s products"

The stay does NOT apply for painted items.

[StoryBlox]

Yes but there it says "painted children's products" but the actual section of law it's talking about says "Toys/Children's Products painted with lead or containing lead" so if I have a manufacturer's 3rd party certificate on the paint stating that it contains *no* lead, I don't see that it falls under that section...

[CogansCreations]

I'm still confused as well. Even though it was stated that textiles may be exempt....I'm not sure whether that applies to acrylic yarn and fiberfill. I've just decided that I'm going to remove all child related items on Monday night, and just refocus my shop on non-child related items.

[Former_Member]

marking.

[Former_Member]

i am just as confused as everyone else- i use fabric for my items so i think from everything i have read i am ok. But who knows.

[Former_Member]

krtwood says:
"Certification based on testing by an accredited laboratory is still required for painted children’s products"

The stay does NOT apply for painted items.
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StoryBlox says:
Yes but there it says "painted children's products" but the actual section of law it's talking about says "Toys/Children's Products painted with lead or containing lead" so if I have a manufacturer's 3rd party certificate on the paint stating that it contains *no* lead, I don't see that it falls under that section...
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Help.
This is why I'm confused!

[Former_Member]

mitsel8
mitsel8 says:
StoryBlox, I'm in the same situation as you with the painted wood products. That's all I have in my shop.
I keep reading conflicting information about the paints.
I think that we will NOT be able to sell out products on the 10th. But, please someone tell me I'm wrong.
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What's required after the 10th, as I understand it, is that we have to comply with the lead limit but we don't have to test. If the paints you're using are already ASTM certified you should be fine.

Natural wood + ASTM Certified paint = no lead in your product

[Former_Member]

Thanks everyone.

[krtwood]

If you read the text of the stay it says that it doesn't cover anything they have already issued requirements for acceptance of accreditation for the third party labs, which includes lead paint, small parts, metal jewelry and cribs. On page 14 they go on to say how leaving those in place creates a high level of assurance.

I just don't know if the paint manufacturer's third party testing is sufficient, even if it's from an accredited lab. Everything we were lead to believe prior to the stay was that it was not, and I don't see how that's changed. The component testing is one of the things they are trying to figure out during the stay, so I believe you still have to test the final product if it is painted.

[Former_Member]

Of course, what I posted above is "common sense" not "CPSIA sense".....I forgot that painted items weren't exempted in the stay.

If I recall right CPSC said at one point they wouldn't prosecute anyone unless there was an actual verified reported injury, so I'd say that as long as you're reasonably sure your materials don't contain lead or phthalates you should be OK to continue selling.

<---Not a lawyer, just calling it as I see it. Coats & Clark makes most of the yarns I use, and according to their testimony to the CPSC the amount of lead found in their highest-lead dye formula was less than 34 ppm, and the yarn they tested came out to less than 6 ppm. That's well below the current limit and any of the limits that have been announced will come into effect in the future, so I feel pretty confident that it's safe to stay open. I think if I was doing painted items using ASTM certified paint I'd feel the same.

[Former_Member]

I guess for now I trust the paint manufacturers' certification. I'll just have to be comfortable with using those products and go from there. Thanks to everyone for trying to explain all of the different statements.

[Former_Member]

lol. At this point, I've just decided to remove what little children's items I had and wait until someone publishes a book on CPSIA for dummies!

[bobbinalong]

If the roles were reversed, and we were operating our businesses like the CPSC is operating theirs, well . . . we would be out of business!!! In a hurry!!!

I can't imagine what toy manufacturers are going through. Or retail stores. They should fire every person at the CPSC from the top down.
Hard-working Americans are losing their jobs, and then you have those who don't deserve to keep their jobs causing all this confusion and changing their minds from day to day. Not one person there has a definite answer to any question we ask.

[Former_Member]

bobbin, I don't think it's the CPSC. They appear to be doing all they can with limited resources and help from Congress.

Perhaps Congress is the group that should be fired. With one hand, they're squashing small businesses that can help to stimulate the economy, while with the other they seek to rush through a massive stimulus package that will only serve to make government larger and that the Congressional Budget Office says will worsen the economy. My children's children will be paying this off. Frankly, I'm willing to bet that business (of all sizes) can do a better job of stimulating the economy than the government can.

Sorry for the vent. My right-wing alter ego is in possession of my wits today. grrrr...

[trafalgarssquare]

since when has congress cared about kids in utero?

[Former_Member]

littlethingsboutique says:
Perhaps Congress is the group that should be fired. With one hand, they're squashing small businesses that can help to stimulate the economy, while with the other they seek to rush through a massive stimulus package that will only serve to make government larger and that the Congressional Budget Office says will worsen the economy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think you said it all! I am convinced that is their whole plan in a nutshell.

I sure hope I'm wrong!

[StoryBlox]

*cough* nice point trafalgar

I don't think it's the CPSC either, they're trying to find a way to not stab us all in the back while still trying to enforce the laws congress laid on their doorstep to enforce. They don't make the laws, but they are charged with enforcing them when they don't yet have the means, the manpower, OR the scientific ability to do that enforcement -- besides, they seem to me to think the law is ridiculous just like we do, but they still have to enforce it anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for safety in children's toys... but the small manufacturers, retailers and thrift stores were NOT the ones that put massive amounts of contaminated toys on the markets... and we won't be the ones to do it in the future.

Any company who was willing to cut that kind of corners at the risk of thousands of children will be just as willing to import the same kind of dangerous products even after the new laws are in place. These laws will do NOTHING to prevent the problems -- they will only cripple the economy further and create a 'black market' for toys, of all things!

[Former_Member]

There was an online article recently about killing a gnat with a bazooka. If I remember correctly, the author stated that those businesses who put the "bad" items out there should have had civil and criminal penalties/sanctions/whatever. Perhaps they could have taken it a step further and disallowed use of that particular Chinese contractor, but I know less than nothing about international trade agreements, so maybe they can't. Point is, there are machinations in the capitalist system that we have that are designed to punish offenders. Why do we feel the need to legislate every little thing?

(point of clarification: my kids and their safety are no small things, but I view them as MY responsibility, not the government's.)

I think I'm beginning to get punchy...

[StoryBlox]

If the government took all the money they spent in legislators' time, the manpower to field all the calls/complaints/emails/letters that came into the CPSC for this ridiculous and badly thought out law, and stuck it in an account...

I bet they could have paid for enough XRF guns to inspect one item from each and every shipment of toys, dyes, paints or finishes imported from overseas. Problem solved. Turn back the items that have obviously high levels of lead at the port. Require the iffy shipments to be tested fully at a lab, at the manufacturer/importer's expense.

Add a stipulation that all paints, dyes and finishes manufactured in the US comply to the new lead limit (and technically that stipulation might already be on the books), and you know the toys not imported are already safe.

Now no unsafe toys (lead-wise at least) are even entering the market unless they're being smuggled in, and the problem is solved.

But that would be too dang logical, and it wouldn't cost enough, and it wouldn't drive all the small businesses into the ground or prevent poor people from getting toys and clothes for their children on consignment.

[StoryBlox]

erm I didn't mean consignment, I meant thrift shops haha I'm tired

[StoryBlox]

Okay I just re-read the FAQ page at the CPSC and I found some information that I had been clear on before and no longer was... it cleared up some things again and it confused me more on others lol

as far as labelling goes:
http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/faq/103faq.html#domestic
"The law requires that one year after enactment, or August 14, 2009, manufacturers of children’s products must place permanent marks on their product providing the information specified. Thus, the Commission staff believes that the tracking label requirement applies to children’s products manufactured on or after August 14, 2009."

That means that the labeling stuff doesn't become an issue until August, BUT I have to find a way to put permanent labels on EACH CRAYON and maybe each individual block? when August rolls around... ugh.


Here's what confused me on the paint thing:
http://www.cpsc.gov/about/cpsia/faq/101faq.html#certbeforedate

"Children’s products manufactured after February 10, 2009, when the lead limit may not exceed 600 ppm, will need a general conformity certification based on a test of the product or a reasonable testing program for products after that date. Children’s products manufactured after August 14, 2009, when the lead limit may not exceed 300 ppm, will have to be certified based on third-party testing of the product by accredited third party laboratories after that date."

That makes it sound like I need general conformity certificate -- elsewhere is explanation that we can issue our own general conformity certs for now if we have based on a 'reasonable testing program' (and the testing of the paint by the manufacturer qualifies for that imo) -- and wouldn't need the 3rd party testing until August.

But on the same dang FAQ, two questions up from that, it says "third-party testing of the product for currently effective lead paint limits by accredited third party laboratories is required for products manufactured after December 21, 2008." which is a direct contradiction, so I can't tell what to believe.