plural or not?

[Former_Member]

in regard to SEO, if I had to choose one or the other, which would come up more in a search?

example: favor or favors

"s" or no "s"? that is the question!

[Former_Member]

If you are talking about wedding favours, I'd go with the plural :)

[JewelMeShop]

I would go with plural

[Former_Member]

when you have questions like this, dont ask, check the search results

wedding favor

https://www.etsy.com/search?q=wedding%20favor&order=most_relevant&view_type=gallery&ship_to=US

favors

https://www.etsy.com/search?q=wedding%20favors&order=most_relevant&view_type=gallery&ship_to=US

[GreenMarthaBoutique]

So it's... the same it seems !

[Former_Member]

Etsy treats singular and plural as the same thing but Google does not. For Google searches, try the version that gives you best Google search results.

[Former_Member]

google does read them the same, unless you use "exact search" . Not sure how many do that, besides me.

as can be seen here:

https://www.google.com/webhp?source=search_app#q=wedding+favor

some of those on page 1 had "favors" in their url, which search truncated to "favor".

the odds of you being found in that hunormous category on google arent good.

[Former_Member]

so theoretically, the longer word would bring results for the longer and shorter word?

like typing "wonderful" would produce results for "wonder" and "wonderful" whereas typing in "wonder" would only bring results for "wonder"?

Am I overthinking this?

[Former_Member]

I'm re-reading my original question & I realize that I didn't really ask it well...

I'm trying to decide on tag words -- not how to search for something, but what tag words are more likely get me found in search (sorry for not being clear on that)

Alex, I had already done the experiement you mentioned in your first post. But in just picking a few here and there, and looking at their tags, there were both singular and plural forms of the same word, so that didn't really help me know which word actually got them found.

[Former_Member]

Alex,

Google does treat both singular and plural differently. There can be overlapping when backlinks contain keywords of both singular and plural. I suggest that you test both singular and plural and note the differences in the search results. (SEO has been my full time professional work for over 10 years).

[Former_Member]

Gina,

You are over-thinking this. There are too many words in this and other languages for the search algorithms to know where to split each word.

When in doubt, test your words on Etsy and on Google and take a close look at the results.

[Former_Member]

gina, when you have a question like that, type it into search and see what pops up.
And, you did ask it right. How the word is treated in your tags is the way it is treated in search.

mary,

the words in bold are the ones used to return the search results.
As you can see, the plural word is bolded for the single search in manymanymany instances..

Not only does that happen for plurals, but it happens for synonyms.
I have been page 1 in google searches without using the searched on word Anywhere in the listing.

word matching doesnt rule google.

the results are the results.

[Former_Member]

so... the short answer to my question is "it doesn't really matter" since "wedding favor" and "wedding favors" produced the exact same results? right?

[Former_Member]

yes
you will be relevant for both

dont assume it is the same for every plural, or every form of every word

check in seacrh

[Former_Member]

On Google, singular and plural do matter.

Go to Google.com and enter "wedding favor." Make a note of every web page that comes up in the search results.

Go to Google.com and enter "wedding favors." Make a note again of every Web page that comes up in the search results.

Compare the two lists. There are significant differences between these two lists. Some Web pages are on both lists but in different places, other Web pages disappear from page one and new ones appear.

When working with Google SEO, these differences in search results are very important.

[Former_Member]

there are some differences in postion, but the Why they are ranked that way doesnt appear to be because of the plural.

4 of the first 5 for favors, dont use the singular anywhere (most appear in both results on page 1) . Favors are bolded in all of the results for favor, so thats what goggle used to rank them.

I check results for reclaimed wood furniture a lot. Some items dont use the word Reclaimed anywhere.

so i googled this

https://plus.google.com/+MarkTraphagen/posts/c3PbSFsTzYE

then things made more sense

[Former_Member]

Alex,

Keyword Anchor text in backlinks helps to define what a web site or even one web page is about. Ecommerce Web sites are not very much affected by semantic search and still mostly rely on keywords both on-page via keywords and text and off-page via backlinks.

There is SEO software available that assists in analyzing backlinks and anchor text. Using software like this (manual analysis takes days or weeks) and other processes it is easier to see how this all works together.

[Former_Member]

Ranking on Google and other search engines depends on the quality and quantity of backlinks as well as online reputation.

[Former_Member]

the fact the google bolds both plural and singular versions in a search for the other version of the word, as well as bolding the truncated "favor" portion of a word is pretty strong evidence that using one version instead of the other in your etsy listing wont, by itself disqualify you from ranking well in the search you arent an exact match for.
Which is the question at hand of "is favor and favors the same ?"

on etsy, it is

for google , res ipsa loquitor.

[Former_Member]

Maybe I am wrong, but I think the OP was asking about Etsy searches rather than Google???

What are the chances of her ranking on the first page or two for "wedding favors" for Google? I'd say pretty slim when party city, David's Bridal and other large companies dominate the search results in Google for that phrase.

The best Google plan of attack for most Etsy shops in my experience and in my own personal opinion is to just prepare clean descriptive titles and good descriptions for your listings.

If you can find a niche for your listing that is uncommon, you might show well in Google there and should focus on that niche. But otherwise, use some keywords in your announcement and in your section titles and descriptions, but you don't need to spend a ton of time worrying about optimizing for specific broad google searches.

For instance, I personally would never put a ton of effort into trying to be on page one or two for "garnet necklace" on Google. You are then competing with all the big brand name jewelers and the millions of other small jewelers out there.

But it is much easier to optimize on Etsy for "garnet necklace". And at the top of page 2 in the Google search for the "garnet necklace" is "Popular items on Etsy for Garnet Necklace". And my necklace is the top row of the Etsy page that comes up. That's because of Etsy SEO.

I think a lot of people end up worrying so much about Google SEO when really they need to think about what will be the best strategy for their shop to be found. Is it through Google searches or Etsy? For some shops it may be google, but I'd say for the majority, it will be via Etsy searches so most initial efforts should be there. But that's just my thoughts and experiences...

[Former_Member]

indeed, felicia

63% of ecommerce transactions last year began at the site, not via a search engine., pinterest,. social media links, blogs etc.

I would bet that number is higher for etsy than the norm.

[Former_Member]

It is best to SEO for both Etsy and Google, otherwise you do not know how much you might be missing out on. It can be done. There are sellers who rank well on both Etsy and Google for less popular but still good keywords. It's a matter of learning how to do it and giving each search engine what it is looking for.

Don't give up the battle before even starting because the big ecommerce Web sites look intimidating. Even if you don't make it to page one of the search results for highly popular keywords, ranking anywhere in the first several pages can bring in lots of views and sales from Google.

[Former_Member]

I wouldn't say I have given up on Google. Rather I believe what I do for Etsy searches works for Google as well almost all the time.

I also view it as more of a rate of return question. I have limited time since I have a full time job in addition to my shop. Spending 2-3 hours a month working on revising any poor performing listings from an Etsy SEO perspective and writing good descriptions as I list items has netted me daily sales from Etsy as a relatively new shop. I do get regular daily Google views as well and also a few sales a month as well from Google. I also will get occasional wanelo, facebook or pinterest sales and right now do not spend much time at all on those venues.

My point is that doing well on Etsy search results is simpler and more formulaic than getting a good result on Google. And the efforts I put forth just to develop good results in Etsy will 98% of the time also be good for Google. The same can not necessairily be said for shops that focus on optimizing for Google. Shops optimized for Google that ignore Etsy search tag and title formulas will generally perform poorly on Etsy searches.

For Etsy, I focus on good titles and matching tags and good listing descriptions. Thinking of niche keywords to use. Those all are Etsy SEO but those niche phrases get carried over not just to Etsy but to Google. When I prepare a listing, I work it for Etsy search because it is a smaller world to work in. But those exact same issues I work through on a listing are also good for Google and will get me seen in those niche searches on Google without me spending hours thinking about it.

I could blog and do any other number of things to build up my backlinks and reputation and worry whether or not Google will see favor as different than favors, but that would be several more hours a month in order to see even a small increase over what I am already doing.

In the large world of jewelry, I focus my time on developing new listings and doing quick checks on my Etsy SEO to get a much higher return here. I spend time trying to improve photography and filling orders and good customer service. That success does trickle over to Google without putting in as much effort as most people seem to think.

Right now, for me personally, all I focus on is Etsy SEO and then very basic Google issues (i.e. section titles, shop announcements). That gets me excellent search views from Etsy on a daily basis as well as sales and also regular Google views into my shop and occasional sales. The work you put in for Etsy searches and good listings should also do reasonably well with Google if you've done them right.

Again, that's all just my experience. If I had more time, yes, I would do blogs, etc. But if I'm a struggling shop, I think the best place to start really is to focus on Etsy SEO. Again, that's just my personal experience and other shops I know as well. There are always multiple paths to success.