Tagging done right or cheating....?!

[GabysSchaufenster]

I just read the rules one more time, and there were no changes.... But when I look at other shops, my head starts spinning with an overload of keywords..... 50 words in the titles, tags with 5 unrelated keywords, and even the material section does not say anything about the material, but contains another 50 keywords.....
As a 'law abiding Etsian' I would like to know what is ok and what is not..... Why even have rules if they are not enforced?! Sometimes I get frustrated.... Of course the 'cheating shops' usually are the most successful ones, and that also means more income for Etsy..... So, what is it? Go by the rules and don't have a lot of sales, or forget about rules and be successful?

[JillianDesigns4u]

Wow, I'm so slow I didn't know there were ways to cheat...It is too bad that is happens, especiallly when there are so many trying to do it correctly.

[Former_Member]

Tag and title stuffing has always been going on in Etsy shops and even moreso since relevancy. Sellers want to give themselves every opportunity of being found and since most are clueless on how to work relevancy, they just put everything they can think of in their tags and titles. They usually don't get caught unless someone reports them and knowing how they feel about loss of sales, I am certainly not going to interfere. But if you do it, remember, Etsy could shut you down if they find out.

[MyGigiDoll]

Personally, I will tag my items in a way that describes what I am selling. I will certainly try to think of tags that will help my items show up, but I won't do what you are talking about. I just think there are so many ways to genuinely do well on Etsy, that I think being sneaky like that isn't necessary.

This is the first time I've heard of this. What do people put in their tags that you have seen that break the rules? Just curious.

[Former_Member]

I am a rule follower. Someone suggested I put the word "knit" in my tags but that is against Etsy rules because I crochet not knit.
Trust me, it is tempting but I just wont do it. it's not worth getting my shop shut down for it.

[GabysSchaufenster]

It doesn't look like Etsy is after those sellers..... They put them on the front page all the time..... That's usually how I find out.... :-) And I don't want to report anybody... I just think everybody should have the same chance. And yes, since the system changed to relevancy, there are more and more of those sellers. And I understand because now it's even harder to get views..... But still..... Maybe Etsy needs to change the rules....
Melissa, here the example that made me start this thread. That's because even the material section is filled with keywords..... Else there are other shops much worse in the title and actual keyword sections..... Maybe the title should be limited to one line and the keywords to 2 or 3 words.....
http://www.etsy.com/shop/CreatiKnit?ref=seller_info

[Former_Member]

Since 'relevancy', good decent item titles have been replaced by strings of garbled meta-style keywords. Its a shame, but even honest Etsians have been forced into it. The situation is much worse with the less scrupulous sellers.

I always laugh to myself these days when I list and I read Etsy's "Descriptive titles are best. Try to describe your item the way a shopper would" - haha - do you know a shopper who would describe ANYTHING like the way you see some item titles.

I like the idea of relevancy, but my personal view is that we need safeguards against those sellers who abuse the system...

[MyGigiDoll]

Oh, I see what you mean. Weird that she is tagging in her materials section! I check the materials section when I want to see what materials were used to make the item. Seeing this would be a turn off to me as well as frustrating since I actually want to get some solid information.

[GabysSchaufenster]

Natasha, I actually wanted to do that, too.... I didn't think it would be against the rules because for some reason crochet is sold everywhere as 'knitwear'.....
I took the advise from another seller and opened an Artfire shop a few months ago. Listing is free, but there is a 12 Dollar monthly fee. I don't expect any sales from there, but the search engine works differently and brings in more views. It's not only legitimate, but sellers are even encouraged to do that. And it's easy..... All listings can be uploaded on Etsy and transferred to Artfire.

[GabysSchaufenster]

I put a lot of time and effort into re-tagging every single item for Black Friday and Cyber Monday, and offered a 20 % discount...... Needless to say that I didn't get any sale..... I still don't understand how the search engine really works.... No matter what I'm trying, I always end up on page 250 or so.... :-)

[GabysSchaufenster]

Jill, congrats on your fist sale! :-)

[foreverandrea]

Gaby - OOPS!

What you just did is also against the rules. You called out another etsy seller. You gave a specific link to her, so now everyone knows who you are talking about.

I'm sure you didn't mean to break the rules.

[GabysSchaufenster]

Wow, no, I didn't..... I just meant to give an example for the material section..... I mean, it's something everybody can see.... And Etsy knows anyway when they put sellers on the first page..... I didn't think that would be calling out. And, as I said, there are more extreme cases.... Sorry if that was against the rules.... :-( I apologize!
Like I said, I am not interested in reporting other sellers..... I don't believe in making life difficult for other people... But I do believe in communication, and for myself I want to know what we can and what we can't do.... We are all desperate for more sales....

[ImagineNationShop]

Wow, that shop is tagging a little differently isn't it?? Yeesh. I appreciated seeing the example, but I don't think that shop is the norm for etsy tagging (first I've seen!) and yea, I do think etsy discourages pointing fingers, whether directly or indirectly, at other specific sellers. :-/

[Former_Member]

Emma has it right on.

My sister shop ArtisanMaskers has been around almost 4 years now (my personal shop just opened, just to save you confusion) and we recently had to redo all of our item titles. Previously we started with the name of our piece but after Etsy changed the search to relevancy, we actually got an email from Etsy RECOMMENDING we be descriptive in our titles!

Opening my personal shop I have again studied the rules, but it does slightly contradict itself, especially as it comes to the most successful shops. If you see outlandish rule breaking, report it!! But as it goes for your views, you may want to go with what was "recommended by Etsy" and adjust your titles.

[Former_Member]

And yeah, calling out a seller is against the rules....but wow I would certainly call that pretty outlandish tagging/titling--!!

[Former_Member]

I agree with Emma. Good decent titles have been replaced with long strings of words. A descriptive title and a title that gets picked up by a search engine are different.

[Former_Member]

This thread will be shut down as soon as Etsy sees the shop post, but until then, I know descriptive tags and titles are the best. It is even recommended that titles not be too long, but let's face it, you are going to get a lot more viewers if you have tags and titles that fit and since we don't know exactly what those are, we have tag and title stuffing. While I don't agree with it, all the seller is doing is trying to catch every possible phrase for what she is selling. Don't like it, but cannot blame her. I really hope this thread does not hurt her, since she is doing what she has to do to get sales, since Etsy doesn't seem to be able to explain relevancy as it pertains to their search system so that all sellers understand it.

[Former_Member]

I admit I sort of cheat with materials/tags. I do use what I think are key words like "red glass" or "reactive glass," but if I didn't all my beads would have essentially the same tag, "glass." I think that would be kind of boring. I will also admit to stuffing my titles with what I hope are keywords, but I like to think that my titles do describe what I'm offering.

[GabysSchaufenster]

I totally agree with you, Harriet.... in everything.... As I said, I really, really didn't mean any harm.... And I want to apologize again if I did something wrong..... I'm trying to figure out what works best for the relevancy, and I'm totally confused. I actually look at what other sellers do for inspiration.... That's why I didn't even think I was calling someone out.... It's not like I'm spending my time looking for what other sellers are doing wrong.... I was kind of shocked to realize that it might look that way, because my brain definitely was not programmed in that direction. I usually look at some of the links from the 'first page', and I see that most of them use different tagging methods. My new items hardly get any views at all, even when I'm convinced that these items should be able to sell fast. But how, if nobody gets to see them? And how do I get people to see them...?! I have followed through with the advise that I did find, but that doesn't seem to work. Only items that don't have a lot of competition get a little more attention. So I have to find out what works better and do what I have to do to get sales.... But maybe that's not possible at all when sticking to the rules....?! Although I'm not able to participate in and read everything that Etsy offers, I try to stay on top of the game. So far Information is repeating itself and doesn't really help to go in the right direction.
What I still don't know: Does the material section go into the search engine? I never thought of that. Then there might be a better way to list materials, too.....

[GabysSchaufenster]

Carol, I think you're doing it just right.... At least that's what I would imagine being perfect.... You are my new inspiration...... :-) Really, I don't see anything wrong with your listings. You are not a cheater.... :-)

[GabysSchaufenster]

I will take Carol's example and work on my material tags. Maybe it's a little bit more difficult for my items, though......

[JennyKentDesigns]

Gaby, In regards to relevancy and being higher in search, i do think you need to add more to your titles. I know it seems wrong to you, but now we have too. When i first started i did it the way you do, then i was given advice to add more info to titles and it has helped. I took one item and revised my title and tags until i could see it in the first 3-5 pages then changed each item that way.

I was told to write in short phrases what a potential seller would put in their search box to search an item. When you only have one, then you will only pop up toward the beginning when they use that specific phrase.

Also with tags, was informed that it is actually better to again use short phrases instead of one word. For me most people wont search just "beaded" but will search beaded earring.

Same thing with wool. they may search wool, but more likely to search wool scarf, or wool gloves etc. The jury is still out for me and etsy, but i definilty want to get high as possible on the search. The tags and titles help. I get between 45 and 125 views per day. (only one sale, but hoping for more lol)

Good luck

[GabysSchaufenster]

Thanks, Jennifer.... :-)
Yes, that's something we can actually do now..... Before we weren't supposed to combine keywords..... And I will work on that.
About the titles: I have no idea whether the whole title would go into the search. I remember reading that the first (3 to 5) words of the title would be relevant.... (So I tried to use different words for similar items.) Same with the shop announcement.....
I wish I would understand SEO a little bit better. Sometimes I find my items when I least expect it, and then they are nowhere to be found when I'm sure they would pop up right away. Also, same description.... one item would show, the other one wouldn't...... Why..... :-)

[MyGigiDoll]

Can you edit the post to take out the link to her shop or is it too late for that?