Shop needs Advice on item held in customs and refund policy

[Spellbinderie]

I sell custom made wedding guestbooks and I recently had a problem with a shipment not arriving in time due to it being held in customs for over 2 weeks. I shipped expedited, 5 - 7 days, with tracking. I always ship with at least a week buffer time for issues, i.e. generally give 10 - 14 days total for expedited to arrive.

I don't accept returns if the mistake isn't mine but in cases where an item is held in customs for a long period and the item was time sensitive, I'm considering allowing returns with a refund given when the item arrives back to me, for the price of the item, not the shipping. What is your policy for situations like this? Thoughts? Suggestions?

I want to be fair to buyers but also want to be fair to myself!

[Former_Member]

Are you able to resell or reuse the custom made guestbooks? If yes, then I would accept returns if it didn't arrive in time.

If it's something that can't be resold, be clear in your policies & communications that you have no control over customs, that sometimes there are delays and that you're unable to refund should it not arrive in time. That way, the buyer can make an informed decision. I think that's the most fair way to deal with it, for both parties.

[Spellbinderie]

Thanks Dan. These are personalized orders but in most cases, I could fix that and resell the guestbook.
I definitely need to revise my policies. I currently say I can't guarantee shipping dates for overseas and that I don't accept returns but I might need stronger policies overall to allow much more time, even with expedited shipping. I've always had expedited shipping get there by the date they give me and I give some buffer but not several weeks of buffer. First time I've had a problem :(

[Former_Member]

I don't know. Did you state these things prior to shipping? Otherwise, you're not really protected by seller protection and you need to offer a refund of some sort. Otherwise the buyer has every right to file a claim with Etsy (and PayPal if they paid that way).

Typically if you didn't use FedEx guaranteed mail, an item can take up to 5-6 weeks to arrive to an international buyer. That's just how it is. I don't offer expedited shipping internationally because of this.

I don't think she should be penalized because you weren't aware this could happen.

[Spellbinderie]

Hi Brittany, I shipped expedited, 5 - 7 days, with the French national post system, Colissimo (I live in France). I assume then that the reason that FedEx guaranteed is so expensive is because they'll guarantee clearance thru customs? Just a little confused on that point.
So a buyer can make a paypal claim if an item is stuck in customs?
I am clear with my buyers that I can't guarantee dates but that doesn't make anyone feel good when this happens. I'd rather just be more careful going forward with allowing more time, now that I know that this can happen. I assumed because I filled out stacks of forms that are for customs as well as a facture... forget the name in English but says what I'm shipping, cost, etc.
In the situation that has already happened, I'm going to give a refund. Just need to figure out a new policy going forward.

[Former_Member]

Yes, FedEx can guarantee it will make it through customs and to the destination, or they give you your money back.

If they don't receive the item from customs they can say they never received the item. I think PayPal gives the customer up to 45 days from the date of purchase.

I would widen your shipping range definitely. And, clearly state in your policies that on occasion it's taken up to X weeks for an international item to arrive.

[Former_Member]

I tell people that international packages can take up to 8 weeks to arrive if they are randomly selected for inspection at customs. I generally don't do anything for international orders until this 8 week time-frame has passed.

It's really up to you I suppose. I am very curious to know what opening an Etsy claim could do because, to me, it seems that you've held up your end of the transaction and your buyer is technically SOL. She was aware of the type of shipping she was purchasing. If she's purchasing internationally, it's her responsibility to know about customs in her own country.

I do not think that a buyer can successfully open a claim against your shop if an item is stuck in customs but it's always a good idea to warn international buyers of customs delays. I only ever ship USPS First Class International and I give a long shipping time quote in the shipping notification message.

Here is a link to my shop policies if you'd care to check them out:
http://www.etsy.com/shop/WeThreeBees/policy?ref=shopinfo_policies_leftnav

[Former_Member]

Yes the buyer can. It helps to read the Etsy TOU to be aware of what can happen:

A non-delivery situation arises when a buyer placed an order and submitted payment, but then did not receive the item. Etsy encourages a buyer to first contact the seller via Conversations to try and work out the issue. If this is unsuccessful, the buyer may report that the item has not arrived and open a non-delivery case within the applicable time frame (see Transaction concerns or disputes). Often the case process enables the buyer and seller to resolve the matter directly. Unresolved cases escalate for review and resolution by Etsy.

Please note: a buyer who paid via PayPal may have a limited time frame in which to file a claim for refund of purchase under PayPal's policies; that process is separate from Etsy’s dispute process.

The seller must ship the item(s) as specified by the ships-by date set using the tools provided by Etsy, or within a reasonable amount of time.
Once an Etsy non-delivery case has been opened by the buyer, the buyer and seller must use the case system to communicate about the transaction.
A case may be closed after the buyer and seller reached a resolution agreement, or the item was delivered, or the seller issued a full refund, or if the transaction qualified for the Seller Protection Program.
If a case remains unresolved, it will be escalated for review and resolution by Etsy. Both parties must abide Etsy's decision.
If a case is escalated to Etsy, the seller may be asked to provide Etsy with additional information (for example: proof of shipping and/or delivery, proof of refund) to help resolve the dispute.
For transactions paid via direct checkout, if the seller does not qualify for Seller Protection, then Etsy may issue a refund to the buyer from the seller's Shop Payment Account to resolve the dispute. If there are insufficient funds available in the seller's Shop Payment Account, Etsy may charge the payment source on file for the seller to cover the refund.

A seller who fails to ship an item, respond to a non-delivery case or settle a disputed transaction in a reasonable manner may be suspended. Members who do not comply with Etsy's policies may be subject to review, which can result in suspension of account privileges and/or termination. Suspended or terminated members remain obligated to pay Etsy for all unpaid fees per our Terms of Use.

[Spellbinderie]

Thanks Brittany but when I read thru the TOU, it says I have to show proof that I shipped on the agreed ship date. Which I can. It says only shipments made within the US must also show confirmed delivery.
Did I miss something?

Not that I would not refund anyway, just saying.

[Spellbinderie]

specifically, what I'm referring to is under Seller Protection and says:

Provide proof of shipping; additionally, provide proof of delivery for item(s) shipped within the USA.
For an item priced above $250 USD, use a trackable shipping method that provides signature confirmation at delivery.

[Former_Member]

Would this not be a non delivery case if you can't prove it was delivered?

[Spellbinderie]

My question is does Etsy require me to prove this? A buyer can certainly open a non-delivery case if an item is not received but the info Etsy gives about what sellers must show seems to indicate that seller may not have to prove receipt of delivery. In the non-delivery section of the Do's & Don'ts it says:
If a case is escalated to Etsy, the seller may be asked to provide Etsy with additional information (for example: proof of shipping and/or delivery, proof of refund) to help resolve the dispute.

And/OR, seems like there is some wiggle room there. Etsy isn't saying you MUST show proof of delivery in these cases.

Anyway, if something I sent didn't arrive for a good reason, like customs holds it forever, I would either refund or offer a replacement. I'm just curious about what Etsy's rules are.

[Former_Member]

Karen- I had a situation that might help you figure out your policies- It was the case of a "non-delivery" where delivery confirmation proved actual delivery, (lots of deliveries!) the customer wanted a refund. I had proof of delivery. She said it didn't arrive. I could have said, "oh well" and thought she was scamming me. She got nasty. Now I'm REALLY thinking she's scamming me. I offered to replace the bibs at wholesale price plus shipping costs. She said no. Technically, I didn't have to do a darn thing. However, I refunded her AND was out three bibs. I refunded her purchase price minus shipping and fees. (Some people refund less a 10% restocking fee as well.) Low and behold- the items arrived a couple weeks later. Nice of her to let me know and offer to pay but I was done with it by then and just wanted to forget all about it. Good luck whatever you decide!

I don't think you missed anything, Karen. That's the way I read the TOUs too... If you can prove you shipped the item by the date specified in your listing (or in a reasonable about of time, whatever that means) then there isn't much more you're obligated to do. Now, good business practice is another issue.

Brittany, I'm finding the TOU language is kind of vague. I misspoke- they can OPEN a case but I can't imagine they'd get very far. It would definitely be a non-delivery case if the item didn't arrive but then it sounds like Karen doesn't necessarily have to prove the item was DELIVERED. That "and/or" makes it tricky, like Karen said. It makes it sound like she could provide proof of shipment (not delivery) and that could be enough.

I can't imagine a seller proving that they shipped the item and Etsy making the seller pay consequences related to postal service/customs issues... That just doesn't even make sense. Sometimes packages get stopped! Sometimes packages get lost! It happens and it's nobody's fault. I don't like either party to lose out so coming to some kind of agreement where both parties take a bit of the burden is always nice.

EDIT- Brittany, *Reading* the TOUs is one thing. Understanding them is another! lol I think I've read them dozens of times but I still always find something new.

[Spellbinderie]

I wrote to Etsy to ask for clarification on that point as well as explain my specific situation. As you said Nicole, there is good business practice and what Etsy holds you to. I make my policies generally based on good customer service but I think it's wise to fully understand Etsy TOU too.

Thanks for posting and giving me lots to think on as I continue to adjust and grow!

[Spellbinderie]

I heard back from Etsy. They said I only need to prove I shipped it. If it's indeed lost in the mail (held in customs included), it's up to the shop on how to deal with it. Your shop will not be suspended.

Best to check and not assume when the TOU is a bit open to interpretation. I don't know if this only applies to overseas shipments, the response was in regards to my situation. Etsy says they will refer a buyer to the shop policies for refunds/returns in this situation and DOES NOT require a shop to refund or replace. It seems recommended to have a "lost in the mail" policy written in your shop policy.