Rude messages

[TheBlueRam]

Hi all,
Today I experienced a very negative conversation with a seller that sent me a item -- a vintage bottle -- that he described as in "excellent" condition but had a 1/4" thick black tarry line extending from the mouth to the base. I contacted him and he insisted that he didn't see it, that it was probably just the seam of the bottle, and that I should send him a photo. I did send the photo, very clearly showing the black streak. But he responded without acknowledging the damage, instead telling me that "my accusations are way out of line and that I should be ashamed of myself!!! I was flabbergasted, and took a look at his customer reviews. To my amazement, I saw several negative reviews that were not reflected in his perfect score because of the volume of his feedback. I challenged him, and he accused me of juvenile behavior. I told him to never contact me again or I would report him to Etsy. He contacted me 2 more times to tell me how "sick" I was.

This is so discouraging because I love Etsy, I've been a seller here for 2 1/2 years, and have been a vintage seller for 20 years, and I've never dealt with anyone like this. I did leave him negative feedback on the transaction, so that could be why he was so incorrigible. But I hate to see Etsy sullied by sellers like this.

Just needed to vent and get your feedback and advice,
Elizabeth

[Former_Member]

Oh wow, that sounds terrible. You can contact Etsy directly. Is the abuse@etsy.com still the correct email?

Also, if you are unsatisfied with your purchase and want to return the item, you can open a case against the seller since they sold you an item 'not as described'.

This is a tough situation and I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I would cease all further contact, save all convos and contact Etsy directly on how to resolve this issue. Good luck Elizabeth!

[MariasWorkshop]

Wow! In my five years shopping at Etsy I had only one bad experience - seller with an attitude - but never like this! I am sorry you had to go through that.

Diana gave you excellent advice.

I do not know if you paid through Paypal. I once had trouble with the delivery of my items (not Etsy related). I received less than I ordered. I contacted Paypal and they resolved the issue to my satisfaction very fast.

Good luck and do not let this bother you. Thankfully, for every one of those type of individuals, there are many, many nice and gracious sellers.

[CircusOfCelebrations]

It sounds like bullying and I think it should be reported. I think a lot of us love Etsy so much, that we are too personal when we are dissatisfied. When I am dissapointed in a purchase or how long they took to ship, I usually don't leave feedback, instead of leaving negative feedback, because I know how personal I would take it. But the reason for the disappointment is that you would never treat a seller like that.
I think he probably bullies people who are not satisfied, and they are too afraid to leave it. Since he continued to contact you, I think you should report him, unless you are concerned about it upsetting you more.

[RomaMiaTradingCo]

I would also contact Etsy, and if you really are unsatisfied with it, you should return it.

There is no need for that type of attitude, from buyer or seller! I would never even think to act that way to a customer. Wouldn't you want your customers to be 100% satisfied?

[TheBlueRam]

Thank you everyone! Your advice and validation is exactly what I needed. Your right Nikki, I would never act that way to a customer. I will report this. Thanks again!

[salvagedstudiomke]

Elizabeth, that's such a terrible experience to hear about. I would have been flabbergasted by the seller's responses, too. I agree with everyone who's already posted: report the abusive behavior and get your money back.

[TheBlueRam]

And yes, I filed a report with Etsy Trust and Safety and I can't access that through my email or Etsy. I get error messages

[MariasWorkshop]

So very strange. I thought you would at least get some kind of communication about what is going on. Please keep us posted.

[TikasDesigns]

He may have filed a case against you as well, Will be interesting to see how etsy handles a dispute between vendors.

[RomaMiaTradingCo]

Yeah, he might have disputed your review.

However, I have no explanation for your missing messages. that's really odd.

Paypal does side with the buyers, so it might work out well for you there. I just hope that you can get your messages back.

[Former_Member]

I'm so sorry this happened to you. His actions were totally inappropriate and the fact that your conversations are now gone is puzzling and very frustrating. I know it can't really help you now, but these days I take screen shots of my conversations with horrible people because I've had them deleted on other platforms, or have the other party block me, or whatever and then been unable to access evidence of their inappropriate abusive behavior. Hopefully you won't run across an issue like this in the future, but it may be something to think about. I hope you end up with a good resolution. Best of luck.

[MariasWorkshop]

After I read Elizabeth's last post, I thought that this was a good lesson. I was thinking about copying and pasting convos if something like this ever occurred to me, but Annie's is a great idea. Copied text may just appear as if one made it up. Screen shots tell the whole story.

A thought just occurred to me. The convos on Etsy may have been erased, but what about the messages in your incoming e-mail box. We receive copies of the convos in our mail boxes. Have you checked there? It would be odd if those had disappeared as well.

[MyGreenButterfly]

Okay -not sure that this is the problem but just follow me for a minute. On facebook, when I block someone, it will delete all old messages between me and the person involved.

It might be possible that if you blocked this vender then all of the old email messages were deleted as a result of that action. My IT son says that it might also be possible, if you unblock this person that the messages may show up again. BUT, not sure of that - although at least worth a try to see if you can get messages back.

Just a shot in the dark. At any rate, you have received excellent advice from all and I hope that it is resolved for you soon.

Sharon

[Former_Member]

Sharon, that's a good point. I know this has happened to me with other websites. If people block me first, I can't access their messages to me. It's as if they never existed. So maybe the abusive seller ended up blocking the OP thus making all previous communication from him unavailable.

[HopscotchCouture]

This is why I don't understand the rating system calculating our reviews yearly. I too look at the shops review score and assume that means for all the sales, not just the ones that took place this year.

Why isn't it an overall rating rather than just the current year?

[SageNThymeDesigns]

Is it possible that you, the buyer, were in violation of the Etsy policies in your conversations and feedback? I'm pretty sure that posting about a specific challenge and including the person and shop names in a public thread (which you did in this thread) are in violation of Etsy policy. If you leave feedback about the person specifically that can be grounds for the feedback being removed if it was challenged.

The reason that the reviews are calculated the way they are is so that one challenge out of hundreds or even thousands doesn't represent the shop. It's basic statistics. If you have 5 challenges out of 500 that's still an A+++

[TheBlueRam]

Hello all,

First, to Joanne, I can assure you that I violated no Etsy policies in my responses and feedback. I was professional and stuck to the facts, as opposed to calling this seller names. On the other hand, you are right in that I should not have included his name in this thread, and that comment has since been removed. To everyone: I'm very sorry about this oversight on my part!

To Maria, you were right, I was able to piece together the entire discussion through my emails, so I have all the documentation. In this thread I discussed other email errors, and found out that these were caused by a virus on my computer, which has since been removed.

To everyone else, thanks again for your valuable and timely feedback. I was able to file a claim via Paypal, which was decided in my favor, so I will get my money back. I am still in discussions regarding the other elements of my Etsy complaint, namely, violation of Etsy policies on: 1) harassment and 2) item misrepresentation.

The seller has made unbelievable statements during this claim process. He has tried to turn the tables on me, saying that I harassed him, rather than the other way around. He has accused me of being verbally abusive and "vicious", which is beyond strange, and has made other outrageous statements which, to me, are his attempts to take the heat off him and put it on me. In my opinion, he is a bully who should be reprimanded. But that will be up to the Etsy Trust and Safety team. I will accept their decision.

I truly came into this as a defender of Etsy, which I love, so that others would not experience this type of deception and verbal abuse. This was NOT about the money, which is why I hesitated returning the bottle, which upon further consideration I felt I should keep as evidence. Because of my hesitation the seller accused me of "lying" when I said I'd return the bottle, and told PayPal he refused to give me a refund. But Paypal intervened and promised to refund my money if I returned the bottle so I did. Sure enough, since then, the Etsy team has asked me for additional documentation and photos, which, now, I can't provide! Sigh. This journey has been pretty ugly, and I'm not sure I would do this again.

Since I decided to publicly document this -- for validation and to help others who may go through this -- I will update you here on Etsy's decision on this case -- one way or another.

All the best,
Elizabeth

[TheBlueRam]

One interesting thing to note: During our correspondence on my Paypal claim against the seller he was angry that I filed both a Paypal and Etsy claim at the same time, and reported that as "abuse" on my part. But Etsy encouraged me to file a Paypal claim, and told me I had limited time to do so so I did. He was also angry that I used the term "damage" to describe the thick tarry black line along the length of the bottle. He said it was just "dirt". So initially, he refuted any dirt in my photo, insisting it was just the bottle seam; now he was insisting that it was just dirt. But it was tarry, not dirt, and the opening of the bottle is only 1/4", so it was impossible to clean. That qualifies as damage to me. It certainly isn't a bottle in "excellent" condition, and it would have been impossible not to notice while photographing. So how come his 3 photographs conveniently hid the tarry line?

[MariasWorkshop]

I am glad that, at least, you got your money back. What an unpleasant experience.

[TheBlueRam]

Thanks Maria.