Kiss and Make Up? Help -- I need to vent!!

[PatinaPatina]

I recently sold an item to a customer in the UK (as I have successfully several times before). I must not have checked a box properly, and the customer was charged $17 duty and fees for a $30 item.

I was unaware of this though, until this week when she posted a negative feedback about it.

As soon as I saw it -- I mean AS SOON AS I SAW IT -- I emailed her, apologized, took responsibility and offered to refund the duty and fees if she provided me with the exact amount of extra charges she incurred..

She emailed right back with the amount.

I refunded on Paypal right away, and emailed her to let her know.

She emailed right back and said she received the notification from Paypal.

I emailed her right back and told her I had initiated a "kiss and make up" on Etsy, and if she was so inclined, would really appreciate her updated feedback.

No response.

Nothing

Not yesterday

Not today.

I don't think she's going to Kiss and make up ; (. I don't know why she wouldn't, but 2 or 3 days have passed now, and her responses to the other emails was pretty instant.

SIGH.

Trying to stay positive. . . but does anyone know if "Kiss and Make Up"s take extra time to process/post for any reason?

Any words of wisdom or support out there my Etsy friends? Also, do any of you have stated policies about responsibility for paying duties or fees when shipping outside the U.S. you'd be willing to direct me to or share?

My husband and son said don't worry about it, it's just one, but I'm afraid that BIG RED MINUS SIGN is etched in my brain now : (.

THANK YOU FOR LISTENING, and any and all feedback is appreciated!!

[elainesgems]

I have this in my shipping policies:
Packages are shipped with a tracking number by USPS. Tracking number is only available in the US. International Buyers – Please Note: Import duties, taxes, and charges are not included in the item price or shipping cost. These charges are the buyer's responsibility. Please check with your country's customs office to determine what these additional costs will be prior to buying. International shipping may take up to 8 weeks.

[lipmeister]

I feel badly for you. All the international people that buy things know or should know, they have to pay customs, duty taxes. You are NOT responsible for that, for the future. Make sure to put that in your policies. You can check mine out, to see how it's worded. I'm sorry you put out that money. I just did a k and mu and once the person got my convo apologizing for the situation, she redid the feedback. I hate that she did that to you. DId you check her profile? Has she bought a lot from people? Does she usually leave good feedback? I am only asking because maybe she knew she had to pay and was trying to get you to pay. You handled it so nicely (way too nicely) and she should have changed the feedback right away and thanked you!!!
If you don't have the feedback revised by tomorrow. I would write he an email and tell her that these charges are customary for International buyers and according to etsy, we are not responsible. You can say you did it because you didn't know and felt terrible but you would appreciate her changing the feedback esp because you paid for what she should have paid for (that last part you could leave out to get what you want).
I hope that helps? Good luck!!

[MyShackDM]

Hi Cathy,
I would not worry about it. I red her feedback and it would not affect my decision in purchasing from your shop.
People should be aware that it is their responsibility as a buyer to pay those fees. I have recently added that to my shop policies. Unfortunately lots of people do not read those and just assume you are responsible :(
I have decided, starting now, to add that info to note to buyer every time I ship abroad.
I hope you hear from that person soon and she accepts your offer. It would be pretty mean if she just ditched you. I never had to use Kiss and Make Up (keep my fingers crossed) so I am not familiar how it works.

[Former_Member]

I'm sorry to hear that, Cathy.

It's really nice of you to even offer her the refund because you are not supposed to be responsible for the duty that UK charges their citizens or any duty tax from any country for that matter. Her negative feedback to you is very unreasonable and anybody who know what's import duty tax will understand that it's not your fault. You did everything right and perfect. So if she doesn't respond to your kiss and make up request, I wouldn't worry about it.

And now that Etsy has it's own shipping system, we as sellers are unable to change the item description on the custom form, it's labeled as merchandize by default and the value is automatically put as your sale price not including the shipping. So if she thinks that you should put it as gift, she is just trying to lie to the UK customs to avoid the fees.

To avoid this in the future, maybe you want to put how the shipping label works in your policy and clearly state that you are not responsible for any custom duty they may have to pay.

[Former_Member]

What she asked you to do in the feedback is illegal. You cannot mark merchandise as a "gift". All sellers and most international buyers should know this. You really should not have refunded her the fees. It is not your responsibility. You can also check out my policies regarding this also. I have had customers ask & I will NOT do it. I dont want the huge fines that canbe imposed if you get caught.
Since she is not responding to your kiss & make up I'd let her know and if it was me not in a polite way either!!

[Former_Member]

That blows. I was heartbroken when I got my first (and only) neg feedback. I think it was unfairly given by someone who did not know how to use etsy very well and couldn't figure out how to contact me.

After a failed kiss and make up, I was furious and hurt. It took time, but I've let it go. I have focused on all my good reviews.

The best advise I can give is NOT to freak out and change your policies in such a way to scare away your customers. I think a shop that has a bunch of negative "not responsible for" comments is scarier to buy from than a shop with 1 bad review. Keep "not responsible for" comments quick and simple, then focus more on what great service you have.

♥ Dawn

[PiecesofMeCardsnMore]

Buyers are responsible for any duty or customs fee they're charged on their end. There's is an excellent post on the Etsy blog about international shipping. It's worth the read.
http://www.etsy.com/blog/en/2010/shipping-how-to-custom-forms-duties-and-taxes/

My international shipping policies include this:

Customs forms will be filled out with an accurate description of contents and value. The buyer is responsible for any additional costs such as duties, taxes, and customs fees.

[PaperFlora]

I've had a similar situation and brought it to Etsy's attention and a few days later is disappeared.
You may want to leave her a "-" or "o" (your choice) feedback that states sorry about the added charge but what she asked you to do in the feedback is illegal. You cannot mark merchandise as a "gift".
Or
leave feedback that states sorry about the added charge and that you have promptly refunded the difference as per your emails and you hope that she is now happy with her transaction.

BUT really don't worry about it. I know it's easy for me to say that while you are obsessing about it but we've all been there. You're not alone.

[Former_Member]

I'm sorry you had to go through that, Cathy. I agree with Robin, It's not your responsibility and buyers should know about their own country.

Excellent text in your listing, Elaine!

Don't worry about one minus sign in your feedback.
Is there anywhere we can add our "to cents" to a feedback?

[Former_Member]

Your buyer got what she wanted, money. So then she quit the conversation.

[Former_Member]

It was "Merchandise" not a "Gift" and you did nothing wrong. You did a great job and she shouldn't have left you a negative feedback to begin with - much less allowed you to pay her duty fees! I'd leave her negative feedback too - not to be vindictive but because she deserves it - and also to let other shop owners know she expected you to lie and help her deceive customs. Maybe once you put that truth out there she'll be quick to want to kiss and make up. Wonder how many hard-working shop owners she's conned into paying her customs fees. Grrr!

[PatinaPatina]

Your support and advice was hugely helpful, and I feel SO much better for it.

I know I totally overreacted and it was a knew jerk reaction to refund the $$ but it caught me so off guard, I defaulted to going above and beyond to make up for it and learn from it. I definitely learned a lot - mostly from you - THANK YOU.

I will update my policies for sure. One person suggested, giving my customer the benefit of the doubt, that it might be confusing how to respond to a "Kiss and Make Up" if they aren't familiar with Etsy (I had never heard of it before this happened) and that I should contact Etsy and get a link to send her directly. I might try that. I can accept being abused on paying the fees if I didn't have it in policies, but it's a lot harder to accept why after getting her money the customer wouldn't just go ahead and check the positive box . . .

Anyway, thanks again for the big Etsy hug you all gave me - I so needed that after this experience.

xo

[TerraRhapsody]

The buyer clearly has no idea what they're saying. It's quite sad that they've tried to take it out on you, but it's a crime to label an item as a gift if you do not personally know the buyer, and it's also not your responsibility to pay for them. That can also be considered a crime, so please don't do that again!
If they gave you bad feedback anyway, giving them a refund was not worth it anyway, let alone the fact that they should be paying that for importing an item.
Add a clause into your policies (if you don't have on already) to let people know that you're not responsible for such fees.
I'm from the UK and I have had a lovely selection of fees to pay, but I know it's my responsibility to pay them- not the sellers. It's not your fault they wanted to buy your item and didn't pay any attention to import laws on the HM customs and revenue website. Perhaps they should do some internet ads to let people know.
Anyway, I really hope etsy helps you out on this- they're out of order, but on the other hand, seeing the message left as feedback, I can see its not your fault and that they're taking it out on you.

[MythOfTheWild]

This doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the customs form. Customs fees hit people in the UK for anything worth over £15. $30 is about £20. This should be expected in the UK when buying from outside of Europe.
This is also not your concern. As the seller, not the importer, it is NOT your duty to pay this fee. This is a seperate fee that the customer/importer has to pay.
Unfortunately, these customs fees seem to come at random - I've bought from the US here in the UK several times over £20 and only once did I have a customs fee.

You should have informed the buyer that it was her duty to pay that fee and not your responsibility at all. And while this SHOULD be common knowledge, it really isn't. Add this info to your shop policies.

Customs fees are not a good reason to leave a negative feedback, and neither is it something that the seller should legally pay for.

[Former_Member]

Aw I am sorry I am afraid she did not know that she is responsible for import fees you did nothing wrong and should not have refunded her and I can not believe you did and she did not take off her bad review shame on her.

Make sure you put it in your policy that they need to know what fee's they will have to pay if they order from you. It is their responsibility

[Former_Member]

Oh no Cathy, so sorry to hear that this happened to you!

If you have written the correct amount on the customs form then you cannot be help responsible for the fees. Here in the UK, we have to pay our VAT (20%) on items overseas over the value of £15 and a Royal Mail handling charge of £8.

You should maybe update you policies to say that you always include true and accurate information on any customs forms, and any taxes are the responsibilty of the buyer.

Also, I may be worth trying to email your customer (not just convo) as they may not have logged into Etsy. Explain that you are not to blame for the charges and refunded as a gesture of goodwill.

Really hope this works out for you!!

[PiecesofMeCardsnMore]

Jenny from GrandmaDinkAndMe says
I'd leave her negative feedback too - not to be vindictive but because she deserves it - and also to let other shop owners know she expected you to lie and help her deceive customs. Maybe once you put that truth out there she'll be quick to want to kiss and make up.

***********************************************************************

Leaving transaction details in feedback won't benefit other sellers because they can't see it. No one but the buyer themselves can see their buyer feedback. Etsy protects buyers.

[Spellbinderie]

You can also ask Etsy to remove the feedback. No guarantee that they will but in the TOU they say that feedback left for "other services" can be reviewed for removal. I would think that duties/VAT would qualify. Can't hurt to ask!

http://www.etsy.com/help/article/483#feedback

[Former_Member]

Honestly, I think you were "had" by this buyer. Most people in countries that impose customs taxes/fees know that they are imposed upon them and are not shocked when it occurs. I get a funny feeling that this buyer used that to his/her advantage. Did you require proof? A photo or scanned copy of the amount owed by the buyer? This just seems very fishy to me.

[Former_Member]

I would not be put off by your neg.
I think the buyer explained politely why she left it, so not really a reflection on your products. More of a shipping issue, which we have to deal with sometimes, not really anyone's "fault".

I'm more put off by negs that have comment such as: Item in bad shape, seller did not disclose damage, it's been weeks since my order, still not arrived and seller not responding etc. etc.

Those type of negs make me sit up and take notice.

A neg from an inexperienced or difficult buyer? Not so much.

[Former_Member]

I agree Alex, the negatives that concern me are not regarding customs/shipping but those like you stated, poor quality item, failure to ship, failure to complete and item, etc.

I think you're ok so far as the negative goes, though it stinks that you have one and no longer have 100% feedback, but I think future buyers will not pay that much mind. I know I wouldn't.

[Former_Member]

Yes, good point, Alex.

[joliefemmebydiana]

Glad to be learning from everyone's experience, you just have to be careful and look into things before acting. I really need to slow down and learn that myself.
On unpleasant people and negative feedback, it does bring me down and make me mad but I don't want to get mixed up with negativity against others unless it is necessary and helpful to my business.

Thanks for helping me stay informed!

[KnitsByNat]

People reading the feedback will know it's her problem. You cannot send your packages as gifts since it could cause you problems. She's lucky you refunded her the duty charges.