Help. Buyer wants refund

[LeNidDeFleurs]

Hey,

So I'll explain what happened.

Buyer emails asking about tracking because an item sent on the 15th hasn't arrived yet and that she needs it for this Friday (today is the 26th). I explain that i don't provide tracking automatically (optional upgrade at checkout) and that it's probably stuck in customs. She asks why would it be stuck in customs so I told her the item is coming from the UK. She says she didn't know that (even though it says so on my page) and then messages me again demanding a refund because clearly the parcel is lost. I told her that it's been less than 2 weeks which isn't enough time for the parcel to arrive and that it wasn't my fault if she wasn't aware the parcel was coming from the UK.

She messages me back saying if it hasn't arrived in time for Friday she's going to file a claim and get her money back. I told her I would happily offer a refund once she returns it to me. She refuses saying it's unfair, that I don't provide tracking and that it's fault the item hasn't arrived.

I suspect she will file a claim and get her money back even if the item arrives after her event.

[purplewyvernjewels]

If the customer didn't tell you that she needed the item by the 26th, before the item was sent, then I would stay your ground.

I would respond back something along the lines of: that they never told you that they required it by a certain date, if they had you could have let them know that it might not arrive in time and given them a chance to cancel the sale (and have a refund) before the item was shipped. Since the item has been shipped, you can't offer a refund until the item is returned to you. Items going abroad can typically take anywhere between 2 weeks but can take up to 6 weeks to arrive.

I wouldn't refund until you've received the item back. Obviously they can still try to open a case, but given the fact it's an international shipment any case via Etsy/PayPal will have to allow some time for the item to arrive in the first place.

[LeNidDeFleurs]

Well she's been sending very demanding and rude emails so I rang up PayPal and they said that she is free to file a claim after 7 days. Which I will inform her of, but that it's a bit iffy if I didn't provide tracking. But they also acknowledge that if its stated on my website I don't provide tracking then the balls more in my court.

She kept saying it was up to Etsy and PayPal to decide what would happen so I explained to her that as an EU seller I am bound by the distance selling regulations which says a parcel must arrive within 30 days and then changed her tune to, it's up to PayPal. At which point I rang PayPal.

[RomaMiaTradingCo]

What victoria said.

And just as an in case for future orders, I would state in both the item description and the note when item is ordered that you ship from England and items can take up to 6 weeks to arrive due to customs. I see that you do have a note in your shipping about customs, but would be a good added measure to note about how long it might take.

And if the person paid through Etsy (and not via paypal) and they open a claim with them, Etsy usually sides with the sellers.

[LeNidDeFleurs]

They paid through PayPal, and PayPal tends to side with buyers.

I rang up PayPal and explained the situation and they said that to pretty obvious that she didn't know she was ordering an item in the UK.

My fear is, if the item arrives after the date she needs it she'll still open a claim and act like it never arrived. At the moment it's been 2 weeks and she says it means it's lost already. I quote 'it's not a case of it not arriving in time, it's not arrived'.

[QuirkyCabbage]

How did you send the package? It might be worth in the future sending 2nd class instead of economy, Economy is a month delivery and tends to not be taken care of as much, whereas second class is 5 - 7 days and people internationally are always thrilled that it arrives so quick. I suppose it depends on the size of what you're sending.

If you sent economy that may have lead her to believe it was coming from within their country because it is so cheap

Hope it arrives before Friday and there is no more stress x

[LeNidDeFleurs]

Hey,

I sent it standard airmail from the UK. And no she didn't know I was in the UK. Which is her fault as it does state it on my page. I also have proof she didn't know. It was at that point she decided she was going to claiming the parcel as missing (less than 2 weeks after it was sent). She essentially wants to get her money back because of her own mistake, but in this case unfair on me as she didn't know where the parcel was coming from.

[LeNidDeFleurs]

She was so rude to me. When I informed her that very few mail carriers will say an international parcel is lost after less than 2 weeks, she said that ' I didn't give you permission to inform me of Etsy and Paypal's policies' and then went on about how it wasn't up to me to decide whether or not I issue a refund. I even bothered to ring up PayPal and informed her she was free to make a claim against me as of now. She retorted with 'I hope for everyone's sake the parcel arrives in time'. She was extremely rude and it was clear that she wanted the parcel to arrive in time for her event or she was going to get a refund.

[maydaylabels]

If you have proof of delivery neither Etsy nor paypal will force a refund.

[Netamente]

Sorry you have met this kind of customer, crazy people are all over.

I used to ship by registered mail, which is more expensive but gives me a tracking number to prove delivery. The average are 2 weeks, if it is not stuck in customs.

But it depends, of course, on the relation between the product cost and the shipping cost.

Hope this arrives on time, but this person is not reliable, she can say she has not received it even if she does.

[LeNidDeFleurs]

Hey,

I don't have proof of delivery as I don't include tracking, it's an optional upgrade and says so in my policies

[ecarlateboutique]

I am so sorry that you have to go through this. It sounds like you have done everything you can while staying professional. Sometimes it is difficult to reason with the unreasonable.

Hoping for the best.

[LeNidDeFleurs]

Well she's messaged me asking for proof that I even sent the item in the first place.

I actually rang up Etsy to ask what to do, and their advice to politely inform her that I will no longer speak to her due to her rudeness and to only contact me if it's an emergency. However I fear that her definition of emergency would be up for debate.

[LeNidDeFleurs]

She has just opened a case against me on PayPal.

[StuckOnSilver]

Hi, Amy, so sorry this happened!

I suggest you change your shipping policy from "All items are shipped using the Post Office." to indicate which post office. I try to state "USPS First Class mail," etc.

BTW your items are so sweet!
Bev

[LeNidDeFleurs]

Everything is sent via standard airmail shipping. This lady choose to not purchase a shipping upgrade.

[StuckOnSilver]

Definitely communicate with your buyers if the item will not arrive in a few days so they know what to expect.

[Pippenwycks]

SO sorry you've had to deal with such a rude person Amy!

Just a note of advice I learned from having a very similar situation going from the US to France. Now I always print an extra copy of the shipping label for international orders, That was the only thing that Paypal would accept. They require a copy of the original shipping label.

I lost that case even though I had proof of delivery (after 6 weeks) because I did not know to make that extra copy at that time and she ended up with a $100 item AND a complete refund! Now I make that copy of the shipping label and have not had a single issue (knock on wood!) It's worth the extra piece of paper and time.
Hope it works out for you :)

[LeNidDeFleurs]

Hey

Well I have proof of posting.

Since opening the dispute and I've quoted her repeatedly about how she was going to open a case against me if the item didn't arrive in time for her event (Her fault, didn't realise I was in the uk), she's now changed her tune and is acting like she still wants the item and is sad it hasn't arrived, cos I'm 'the best on Etsy', and that she's checking her postbox everyday, and being polite. Ahh yes, that's because PayPal monitor the conversation. She is also claiming that I have no proof of anything (I have however sent a complete copy of the conversation to PayPal). I also contacted Etsy and they have said that if she files a claim then Etsy will stand behind my polcies. However, I still feel she will pretend the item hasn't arrived to claim a refund.

It's quite funny, because I am repeatedly quoting what she said to me in her conversation with me, but refuses to acknowledge any of what was said, and just keeps saying I want a refund, I want a refund, I want a refund. I'm the sort of person who believes if you can't argue the point, you've lost it, but in this case she can't argue the point otherwise she'd had to backtrack on what she said.

[LeNidDeFleurs]

She's claiming via email my proof of posting is invalid!!!!

And started a claim on Etsy too!!!

[LeNidDeFleurs]

She's now claiming my post office stamp is illegal!!!! ARGH I actually want to smash my head against a brick wall.

[Former_Member]

Please don't waste your time on people like that. She is clearly just looking for an argument and whichever way you say it is, she will say the opposite. Judging by the beautiful items you make, maybe it's for her wedding and she is stressed to have everything perfect. All this stress from her when it will probably arrive on time anyway.

Don't be disheartened. You have done the right thing by being polite and responding to her messages.

Keep up the good work!

[LeNidDeFleurs]

ARggghh... so as I said before she opened a case against me on Paypal, her last message was

' I will not write or reply to your messages again until you have provided some sort of proof that you sent the item. Thank you!'

Guess what? I sent her the proof of posting which I already mentioned in this thread and then opened a case against me on Etsy!, she then decided my proof of posting was illegal and that the post office stamp was forged. So I wrote to her what next? I stole the post office stamp!?! She has not since replied.

To me, it's almost as if every point I argue successfully back at her, she just comes up with something ridiculous and more ridiuclous and has yet to actually attempt to argue any of my points back to me.

No the date she needed it for as come and gone, and as I have proof of her saying ' I'm going to file a claim and get a refund if the item does not arrive in time'

[RomaMiaTradingCo]

I would stop speaking with her. She has opened two cases against you, so I would only speak to Etsy and Paypal regarding this case.

She seems unreasonable, and possibly trying to get something for free. Fighting with her will only cause you more aggravation and work to prove that you are right.

Etsy always sides with the sellers. Hopefully Paypal, despite them usually siding with buyers, will see your side in this case.

[LeNidDeFleurs]

Good news (well partially) the case against me on Etsy was closed by admin.

The buyer may accuse my proof of posting as being illegal, but it seems no one else agreed with her. Thank you common sense and reason!

Now to fight this PayPal case!