Etsy, please return the Search default to Most Recent

[Former_Member]

I've been with Etsy for almost a year and a half. One of the big things I remember in discussions on the Etsy Forums is that sellers would talk about how adding new items or renewing older items would increase the activity on their websites. Well, recently I was concerned that I wasn't seeing some of my new items coming up in searches and I was then told by an admin member that Search defaults to "Relevancy". To my knowledge this is a new and major change as it's never happened to me before, Search has always previously defaulted to Most Recent as I always use to check and make sure my items were visible by doing a search - without changing the search criteria in the drop down box.

Etsy, maybe you think that Relevancy is the best thing for Search to default to but I want you to know that's not true. It's especially not true for the newer shops who haven't had a chance to build relevancy. It's especially not true for the smaller shops that haven't had a chance to build inventory.

The great equalizer that gave the smaller and newer people a chance to be known, a chance to have an income, was when Search defaulted to Most Recent. The older shops already have their strengths by being known. They have direct hits from people who seek them out constantly. They have an established clientele. They've had time to build the size of their shop. And because of those 3 things they also have constant turn over, which means they wouldn't be hurt by going back to the search default being Most Recent.

Please, Etsy. Reset the Search default to Most Recent. Do you see the posts in Team after Team saying how slow April has been? Those are the little, younger shops who could die because they don't ever have a chance to build relevancy without Search defaulting to Most Recent to give them a chance to be known. Please, give us that chance again so we little, young shops can help Etsy grow.

[Former_Member]

I've been here nearly five years (this is my third shop) - Etsy's not going to change the default back to recency. Most websites use relevancy. If a user wants to switch it to recency, they can, but the change is here to stay.

[Former_Member]

Could someone please explain how a shop or item would gain relevancy? My shop has only been opened since Jan. and I was averaging 10 sales a month, which I was thrilled with being a new shop with low inventory. I should reach my goal of 100 listings tonight, have improved photos, tags, titles, but have only had 3 sales this month. Also, it's very disturbing that views have been LOW- very few people are browsing my shop. The sales I did make this month were from people searching for a specific item. What can we do to overcome this problem?

[Former_Member]

The problem with recency is that it allows shops with lots of money to continually renew keeping themselves on top. The little shops of whom you speak of can't compete as they don't have the funds to do this constantly. As a buyer I prefer Etsy's relevancy search. There are TONS on mistagged items on Etsy, and I got tired of looking at the same relisted items that were not really relevant to what I wanted.

You can make your shop more relevant though! Maybe join a SEO team for tips on how to make that happen. It's all in the titles and tags.

[Former_Member]

Ida, I'm already on the SEO team.

[rusticcraftdesign]

Relevancy is king....the focus should be on improving relevancy.

[Former_Member]

SEO isn't the only thing that creates relevancy. If it were, then all shops would be on an even footing. Everyone could have the same tags and we'd all have the same percentage chance of coming up in the listings - but we don't.

Relevancy is a created statistic. It's created by a combination of tags, age of the listing (more time to bank clicks) and the number of recent clicks. Thus, older, more established shops do better with relevancy because they have established clientele that keep their listings renewing - ie, they have more sales.

Big, well-known shops can actually have very poor tags and still have excellent relevancy simply because they're bigger and selling all the time. (This actually means that they're creating inappropriate relevancy because their clicks aren't based on their tags but rather on large numbers of customers who have direct links.)

Newer shops won't be seen with just relevancy as a basis in a search. That's because newer shops haven't had a chance to bank the clicks and don't have recent clicks, so you end up at the back of the list in a relevancy-based search, even if your tags are exemplary.

[WilliamsGiftshop]

I am very happy that Etsy (as pretty much the last website on the planet...) finally changed its search to relevancy.
Of course it will not go back to dinosaur times.
Relevancy means buyers find what they are looking for. That is what we all want.

[WilliamsGiftshop]

"Please, Etsy. Reset the Search default to Most Recent. Do you see the posts in Team after Team saying how slow April has been? Those are the little, younger shops who could die because they don't ever have a chance to build relevancy without Search defaulting to Most Recent to give them a chance to be known. Please, give us that chance again so we little, young shops can help Etsy grow."

Regency did not mean newer shops to show up first, but recent listings.
Buyers are not looking for 'the most recent listings', but for the ones best matching their search criteria.

[Former_Member]

You are correct that SEO isn't the only thing that creates relevancy, but I have never seen a shop with exemplary tags at the back of a relevancy search (and yes, I check because there are often some hidden gems there.) It is also true that new shops take some time to gain relevancy, but I have seen plenty of brand new shops with a handful of sales which suggests they're pretty relevant. The fact that new sellers are unaware of how to properly tag and title is more likely the issue with their relevancy.

Recency simply isn't fair to those who can't afford to renew constantly, nor did it do buyers any favors. People who can't find what they are actually looking for won't buy, and likely won't return to even try.

[heartsabustin]

Keep in mind, too, that there are normal slumps in views and sales. Last month was pretty slow. This past weekend, I got sales or inquiries in all three of my shops.

And yes - shops that sell better have better relevancy. SouthernTwistedSoaps is my shop, and its relevancy is much better than this shop or my purse shop. Smaller ticket items have higher turnover, which makes relevancy better. If I'm having a slow period, my overall views are down.

A lot of the problem, frankly, is the lack of real enforcement of resellers. The jewelry category would be cut in half if the resellers were to be really and truly gotten rid of.

[Former_Member]

"Regency did not mean newer shops to show up first, but recent listings.
Buyers are not looking for 'the most recent listings', but for the ones best matching their search criteria."

"Recency simply isn't fair to those who can't afford to renew constantly, nor did it do buyers any favors. People who can't find what they are actually looking for won't buy, and likely won't return to even try."

Recency doesn't exist in a vacuum. Obviously recency requires relevancy with appropriate tags or no one would be able to find a shop at all. But relevancy driven by clicks is relevancy driven by popularity of the shop, even if the tags aren't relevant.

[Former_Member]

I think you have it backwards. Recency had nothing to do with relevancy. Recency didn't have any way of knowing what an appropriate tag was. It was simply who listed last. Far too many sellers tag incorrectly thus search results were clogged with items that weren't really what the buyer wanted. And these brand new shops you're trying to defend? Most don't have enough items or funds to stay on top of a recency search.

Relevancy is based on many factors, but views does seem to play a major role. To get those views you must title and tag correctly. New shops don't stay on the bottom for long as new listings don't either...providing they tag and title correctly. You have to consider too that in a super saturated market with general search terms...it's going to be hard to be found. You have to cater to smaller, specific searches.

[Former_Member]

Oh dear. I really hope that etsy doesn't go back to recency. Relevancy makes so much more sense to me as both a buyer and a seller.

[heartsabustin]

Etsy posted record breaking sales after the switch to relevancy. It's all about the M-O-N-E-Y, ladies and gents, and that's a fact.

And I do see a difference in the relevancy vs recency. Once the algorithm settled in, I liked relevancy a ton better.

[Former_Member]

I'm a newer seller, and I think I'm doing ok in relevancy. I definitely would not have joined Etsy if they were still in recency though, and would leave if they went back to it! As both a seller and buyer, I would not shop here as it's a popularity contest pertaining to how much MONEY one has!

[Former_Member]

I like relevancy infinitely better, not just as a shop owner but as a customer. I want to search for something and find what I'm looking for, not something that might be what I'm looking for but just happens to have just been listed. I want what's most relevant to my search, not what's most recently added but might not be relevant at all to what I'm looking for.

As a seller, relevancy, IMHO, keeps the playing field fair. If you are able to do proper SEO, your relevancy will be fine and you will be able to be found in search. I hate the idea of not being able to be found just because I can't afford to constantly renew all 400+ of my listings. That would cost me $80 a day to renew everything daily. Some people, big companies, can afford that. I can't, so if search was by recency I'd have no chance of competing.

[WilliamsGiftshop]

It has nothing to do with 'fairness' for sellers.
Search is meant for buyers, to find the items they are looking for.
NOT to find the most recently listed items (within the group of items they are looking for), but a wide mix of them. So they can make their own choice (instead of sellers with a high budget making the choice for them).

[Former_Member]

I like relevancy from both the buyer's perspective as well as a seller. I have just as much of a chance(if I do me due diligence) to make it to the front of the search results as the other guy and I am not spending a fortune on renewing listings anymore just to make it to the first page.

[Former_Member]

>I like relevancy from both the buyer's perspective as well as a seller. I have just as much of a chance(if I do me due diligence) to make it to the front of the search results as the other guy and I am not spending a fortune on renewing listings anymore just to make it to the first page.

First off, remember that Recency is and was still tied with Relevancy. They worked together or you wouldn't have been able to find the product you wanted using search criteria.

As for having 'just as much chance to make it to the front' with Relevancy by clicks, no you don't. With Recency, you had that chance. Everyone landed at the front when they put up new items. Everyone. I did. But now that Relevancy with clicks is in charge I have never it made it to the front once. And it's not because of tags. I don't make it to front because the larger companies have all the relevancy. They have the history, they have the clicks - I don't have either one of them and even when I put something new up I don't make the front in the listings.

Anyhow, I guess folks don't understand. You don't get it that relevancy was part of recency before this. But before this is was relevancy and recency, and everyone was equal. You paid your price for listing and you got to the front. Now, with relevancy versus clicks, you're not equal anymore. The shops with the most viewership get the clicks and if someone goes through all the listings the little guy might be seen.

Natasha, you said you're not spending a fortune anymore to renew to get to the first page. Maybe not. But heaven knows I was much better off spending that tiny $1.20 each week to renew a few listings and having the rest of my sales as profit. Now, to make up for no more recency, I'm spending $15 per week on Search Ads, minimum. I guess that's good money for Etsy but it will also put a lot of us little guys out of business because we can't afford the ads even though we have to have them to be seen.

So now the ads eat up my profit and I make nothing at all.

[Former_Member]

Teri, you have a right to your opinion but I don't buy search ads so I don't spend that money either. My customers find me but I'm glad its just not when I first list an item. I'm a little guy too but I make the sales I want and then some. Etsy has worked for me but I agree, it doesn't work for everyone so that is why a lot of people open their own webpage for selling.

[Former_Member]

IMHO it sounds like there might be something wrong with your business plan if your marketing is eating your profits. You have to be flexible in sales; if relevancy is most applicable and ideal to our customer base, then relevancy is what I want.

I get what you're saying as a seller. I do, really. But from a buyer perspective--the people we're here to please because without them there is no us--I don't want to see something just because it was listed recently. I don't want to see something that's a LITTLE relevant but extremely recent. I want to see something that's perfectly relevant, exactly what I'm looking for because at other online venues that's the shopping experience I get. On Amazon, you search for something and you find exactly that. Why would you want to search for something on Etsy and have to look through 400 pages to find exactly what you're looking for, sifting through a bunch of less-relevant-but-newly-posted listings. They're still relevant, sure, like you're saying... but they're not perfectly relevant. Customers are, in my experience, more likely to buy when they find something that's perfectly relevant. I'd rather put all the eggs in the relevancy basket if it means better serving my customers.

[Former_Member]

"Everyone landed at the front when they put up new items."

True. And 5 minutes later they were buried by huge stores who relisted 50 items. And under the other 30 stores that relisted a few items. Within minutes you were buried, never to be seen again unless you could afford to list again. $1.20 a week wasn't NEARLY enough to stay on top of search results.

No matter how you slice it, Etsy isn't going back to recency and there is a reason that no other major online shopping venue uses it. It doesn't work for the buyer, and it didn't work for the little guys unless they had deep pockets. I have followed the advice of SEO teams and my views have increased exponentially. It was not without hard work, a lot of time, and tweaking constantly, but that's the nature of business in general. Sink or swim. I chose to learn to swim.

[Former_Member]

Maybe I'm naive, as I said earlier - I'm still new. But if search ads are eating up your profit, why are you using them? I'm pushing to exhaust all free sources of advertising before even touching the search ads. And besides that, again I'm new - yet my products appear on front quite often. And the only time I ever renew is the auto-renew when someone purchases something.

[TheAmethystDragonfly]

I don't have the money to continually renew non-expired items, so I vote NO on recency.
If you have the money to throw away on that then you should use it for search ads or something :)