Copying/stealing shop pictures? What can I do?

[MesmericJewelry]

Earlier today, I did a search on necklaces to see where some of my listings would pop up (I still don't know if I have my tags right). As I was scrolling through the listing results, I saw a familiar necklace from another shop.

I opened that listing and my listing, and it was the same picture. The picture had obviously been copied from my shop and then used by this person in her listing with other pictures she took. My picture was the first, so it showed in the search results.

I looked through the shop, and noticed she sold an item from a listing that contained 2 pictures, both from my shop (none of her own work displayed in that listing).

I reported the item to Etsy (clicked "report item" from the listing). Should I contact Etsy support directly?

I also sent the shop owner a short convo, asking her to remove my pictures. She sent me back a reply that contained:

> You dont have to be rude! This was taken from a folder that I have on my
> computer for ideas and my mother in law accidentally pulled from that file instead
> of mine.

And closed with:
> Thanks again for your rudeness.

How does someone use a picture on accident? Does she not review her shop listings (she does not have that many)? She did not apologize, just called me rude.

So, what should I do now? She did remove the listing. I have not heard from Etsy support, so I do not know if they asked her to remove it or she did because of my message to her.

I know people have similar ideas and designs, especially with simple designs (i.e. one stamped charm). Not everything in my shop is completely unique (other shops have similar items). But I spend hours creating pieces, taking pictures and editing listings.

Do I need to put my shop name and copyright on all of my pictures? Even then, someone could copy and crop a photo.

Has anyone else had this problem? I never thought about someone using my pictures.

Sorry if this thread is too long. I am just so mad about being called rude for telling someone not to copy/steal my pictures!

- Karen
MesmericJewelry.etsy.com

[Former_Member]

wow! that is terrible. I am pretty sure this is against etsy's policies under dos and donts. your not allowed to post photos that are not yours.

I would email them and ask them to take it down. see what they say id anything. the other thing you make your pictures copy writed. there are a couple of programs out there. ever see photo's here that have the shop name sprawled across them? that is a program.

I am so sorry this has happened to you. I think that if they arent willing to take your picture down to take it up with etsy.

wishing you much lucky and a lower stressful day!
Cyn

[Former_Member]

ya know, even if her 'mom' copied them.. then what is she doing? coping your ideas as well? dirty player! thats just sad.

[Former_Member]

the explanation as to why your photograph ended up in her listing sounds absolutely bogus

also, this aggressiveness toward you is not justified, it is obvious she is the one who did wrong

but I think you already did the right thing by reporting this situation and if she removed the photograph, then you've done all you could and worked and it's time to move on and just keep an eye on that shop every now and then to assure your photos are not stolen again

[Former_Member]

Why would anyone do this? How lazy. If they've taken it down that's probably a result. You don't need to put a copyright thing on your photos - you automatically own your copyright as soon as you create anything visual (in the UK anyway). I think the copyright notice you sometimes see is just something that would help your case if you chose to enforce it...but that would involve lawyers etc.

All only relevent in UK - have no idea on US copyright!

[Former_Member]

At least the pictures have been taken down. I agree that it sucks, but I don't think there is all that much you can do to prevent it....

[Former_Member]

Ugh! And her passive aggressiveness just shows she's angry because you found her. At least she complied with your wishes...just keep an eye on her, she might be stealing pictures from others too!

[Former_Member]

Vanessa, you are close.
(I studied copyright laws as part of my "senior project" (something you need to do in order to graduate from secondary (that's a global term right?) school.))
(That was a lot of parenthesis haha)

Seriously though.

The Berne Convention is a treaty across 165 countries that states that anything you create is yours. You automatically have the copyright.
Which means if, say, she didn't take the pictures down. You would be able to send her another message threatening to take her to court and sue her how ever much you want to. $1,000 is a nice scary number. That would most likely scare the crap out of her and cause her to take the pics down.

This is the sucky part though. If she instead said, "That's fine, bring it on," You couldn't do squat.

Not only would you need to shell out a ton on a lawyer, but after paying for your first consultation your lawyer would tell you that you have already lost the case. Because even though you own the copyright, you are the only one who knows that for certain. There is no way to prove that you took those pictures and not her. If there was, then you might win. But a judge could still rule in favor of the girl.

The only way to absolutely, beyond a reasonable doubt, with out question, prove that you own the copyright, is to pay to get a U.S. copyright, which then gives you the right to use the copyright notice.

So you can threaten to sue someone because your work is copyrighted (that sound so weird) and not be lying at all. You do hold the copyright! But you would lose if you went to court.

Fun fun, isn't it?

[Former_Member]

Ahhhhhaaa you will find all kind of fish in the ocean not everyone on etsy is talented creative and artistic and some of them feed of other people hard work and talent and it is obvious this lady is one of them.

I am not surprise she called you rude. What she did is rude and practically it is stilling. She stole your picture so calling you rude is her lousy way to be defensive. I really wish you will post her shop name here so we all can check her shop. Maybe we will find our work there as well.

The other day I saw someone posted on a team a phone case that she made on Dec. Identical to my coin pouch only from different material and she added little decorations so she can claim it is her design. Bs. it was so obvious she
copied it from me. I just let it go however it is very devastating to see some one
Feed on and still your work that you dedicated time and talent to create.

Karen, I really appreciate if you post the shop name here we all want to know and I wish you the best of luck.

[SheEarth]

Hello,
Oh you poor thing, that is Horrible! You have every right to be upset what a horrid person. If they have removed all of your photos then I would just leave it -keep an eye on it and make sure she doesn't just do it again in a month or so. Update you item descriptions to include how YOUR work is yours and you create and do not you generic photos or something to that effect so if customers have also noticed then they can understand without having to be told.

If they do it again, report them again and then contact etsy support directly.
However I know it is not the best look but maybe think about putting a watermark on your photos with your shop name. Unfortunately they already have the photos they have but this will prevent them from getting new ones and if you retake the ones you think they have -include the watermark- then your photos will be yours and the customers will know it.

Good Lucky with it, I know the sadness it causes when someone rips of your work and sells it as their own - experienced it in the off line world- so stay true to you. you can not change them but you can change yourself/products/photos for the better

Oh and she was probably so horrible because you caught her out as being a fake, hell she is probably a scammer and you are shinying the spotlight on her lies they don't like that

[Former_Member]

Karen, don't post the shop name here. There is a good chance that will just get this thread shut down. That would be violating these two rules under the Do's and Don'ts:

"Knowingly harassing, insulting or abusing other members is unacceptable.

The community spaces are not the appropriate channel to express disputes with others."

Not that you would be harassing her by posting her shop name, but it would allow others to harass her.

[Former_Member]

JUST IN CASE you have to take it any further with Etsy Support, I would make sure keep your conversations with that shop, and document everything!!!! It never hurts to have your records on your side.

[Former_Member]

Also, I wanted to say I agree with Courtney. Please don't put the shop name here. As much as it's horrible, and we all agree, there's no point in getting yourself in trouble when you may need Etsy Support on your side.

[Untwistedsister]

At least she took down the photos which is what you wanted to happen. I would keep a close eye on the offending shop to make sure she doesn't make a habit out of it.

I've even heard of bogus sites stealing photos and selling items they don't even have! They offer them for pennies but you have to buy quantity but there's really no merchandise. I guess it takes all kinds....

[SplendidStarlings]

She's the one who's rude. Blaming her mom.. puuu-leeze! Probably a liar too.

[LouiseMead]

So rude! You were perfectly within your right to ask her to take the pictures down. It's one thing to use images for inspiration for personal projects but not for stuff they want to sell on. It's just not on. Cornered animals often go on the attack - she obviously knew she was in the wrong and had been caught red-handed and dealt with it by taking a pop at you. I wouldn't worry, you've done nothing wrong. However I would keep an eye out just in case she reposts.

[Former_Member]

Gah. Welcome to the wonderful world of copyright! I am a writer and my fiancee is a photographer. We get this often enough.

There is a nifty little site called tineye.com that you can load your pictures up and see if anyone is copying them. Unfortunately, this is a needed tool nowadays.

And her response was typical. You were nice to tell her. She was the rude one. Next time, either expect that kind of response, or just report without telling them directly.

[Former_Member]

Try adding a watermark to your pictures? You can create one in Powerpoint. Its a very simple thing to do. It should steer copycats away from your pics..

Good Luck!

[WildRoseHerbs]

Just a thought on something like this ever going to court (even though it never would because the cost would be unbelievable). But, I'm pretty sure in this digital age each photo taken has a digital "earmark" as to the type of camera, and in some cases even the serial number, as well as date time, etc. So, I think in this way, and with yours being listed on etsy before hers, proves that it is yours, or could prove? Anyway, just a thought, if not for a lawsuit than for a dispute with Etsy. What a terrible thing! You did everything right, and since she took down the photos I don't think there's anything else you can do. How aggravating!

[LouiseMead]

Thanks for the tip Patricia that's great!

[MesmericJewelry]

Thanks for the comments. I like the watermark idea; I think I will start adding my shop name in the center of my pictures (when the necklace is hanging and the chain make a V). That way, it cannot be easily cropped out of the picture.

I did get a generic reply from Etsy support that contained:

> If you believe that another member or item on Etsy is using your photos,
> you may choose to respectfully contact the other person via Etsy
> Conversations with your concerns.

> Please keep in mind that Etsy alone is unable to determine if an item
> may be sold when it comes to copyright. If you have any other questions
> about this matter, you may wish to consult an attorney.

As others mentioned, I would need to hire an attorney to attempt to "prove" these are my pictures. I had a follow-up exchange with the shop; I could not be quiet when I thought about her reply.

I sent the following:
> I have every right to be rude: you stole pictures of my work, and posted
> them as your own. You sold a necklace with two pictures from my
> shop....not your work.
>
> Regardless of who posted the picture, it is YOUR shop and you are
> responsible for your listings. You should know what is being advertised.

She was more contrite in her response, and apologized. But included comments that show she has done this before:

> There was a picture a couple of weeks ago that my mother in law put up
> there that I caught and there is nothing wrong with getting ideas from
> people. You think you are the only one making gifts like this? No. I did not
> mean for your necklace to be up there. There were actually a few others
> that were accidentally put up that I caught a few weeks ago.

I looked through her other listings, and I think there are pictures from other shops (not mine). Some pictures are obviously different than others (background, quality and focus). I will check periodically, to make sure none of my pictures show up again. If I can determine who the other shops are, I will send the owner a head's up.

Best wishes,

- Karen

[Former_Member]

Karen,

I am sorry that Etsy can't do anything, but I can see their point. I found a cease and desist letter you can copy and use if it happens again. If it does, I would send it to the person using your work, as well as the Etsy team. http://www.free-legal-document.com/copyright-cease-and-desist.html

[CookOnStrike]

And... always keep the source files of your pics (unedited, RAW, with unmodified file EXIF info) if it ever comes to the worst..

watermarking only makes stealing images a little bit more work, but does not prevent it.. sadly :( It's too easy to edit/remove/mask or crop out.. And watermarking across the whole image (like stock agencies do) spoils the viewing experience..

[Former_Member]

Wow , I am floored someone would have the guts to do that and then be rude when caught. It's horrible. I would ask etsy to contact you about what they did in response to this theft. I hope you get satisfactory results from them. Good Luck.

[Former_Member]

Wow. I am flabbergasted. Some people are so lazy. I wonder what her customers think when they receive an item, that clearly wasn't in the picture... since she didn't take the picture in the first place!!