Knitty Code

[knittylittlesecret]

Or Crochet-y or Etsy code.

So I generally find my patterns (the ones I'm not clever enough to come up with on my own) online and are free. And I don't ever claim a pattern to be mine when it's not and will always say where I get my patterns should anyone ask.

That being said. I found a pattern on lionbrand several months ago that I love and was waiting for the right yarn. There's a lady on Etsy selling the same hat (she used bigger needles) and I don't want to make it for fear of "copying" her.

For the record she doesn't claim this pattern is from her brain. I'm just wondering if anyone else ever feels guilty for making the same thing as other people? Or if you've seen an item and then decided to make your own and how you've felt about that. Or does it ever really matter as long as you're not stealing someone's pattern and claiming it to be your own or making profit from someone's pattern, etc etc?

[Former_Member]

I don't think it matters if you are making the same thing as someone else, as long as-- like you said-- the pattern is one you are using legitimately.

[Former_Member]

i dont think its an issuue when considering .... no offence to anybody but look how many people aremaking beanies that look almost identical only 1 person has a flower on it and another has a fuzzy ball on top . im sure its bound to happen but as long as ur not dilibertly trying to steal patterns which we know yournot then its ok .... hummm i wish i could make a beanie ... but anyways knittylittlesecreats beautiful products as alwaysandu too everybody else

[knittylittlesecret]

That's what I'm thinking. I don't deliberately take someone else's pattern, I generally get my patterns from Lionbrand or Bernat and those are free.

I just wanted to see what everyone thought about it.

[Former_Member]

Let's just say you made your items, without ever even looking to see if anyone else is selling them. There are tons of items out there and just as many sellers. You can't worry about looking through every single seller/item to see if perhaps you have made the same thing as someone else. That would be exhausting.
:)

I would make what you were looking to make. Good luck!

[Former_Member]

Yeah... what everyone else said... lol! :*)

[KimberleesKorner]

I agree with DineinStyle. There are tons of variations of different patterns and some are almost exactly the same. Since I sew, knit and crochet I see this in all three areas. Especially sewing. There are lots of different companies selling patterns that are very similar. If you ever look through the different sewing pattern books you will see what I mean.

It is kind of like recipes, in a way. There are many different recipes for the same food item but from different people all with just a slight variation.

I would make the hat you intended to make with your yarn. As you said it is different size needles so it will look different. Good luck. Let us know when you list it.

[AmyDsCrochet]

I agree on what the others have said.

If it's something that you want to make then you should make it & it doesn't matter if there are other shops out there that use the same pattern or make something similar.
You aren't copying anyone so you have nothing to worry about.

Your knitting is beautiful by the way. I love your shop.

[designbcb]

i wouldn't worry about it. not only have i seen items i make - or are on my list to make - in other shops but i also ran across a pattern where the designer said it couldn't be used for profit and couldn't be copied and i laughed myself silly because it was a garter stitch scarf.

i find that even when members of my knitting group make the same thing, there's something about each item that's a little different. you'll put your mark on your project. go forth and prosper!

[Former_Member]

I agree with everyone here, as long as you don't claim the pattern as your own or use someone else's pattern without permission it's no biggie.

I will say my pet peeve is when I see people use the *pictures* from the pattern they used...That just smacks of false advertising.

[LazyTcrochet]

Lion Brand allows people to sell items made from their patterns. I don't think Bernat or many other companies do.
Copying happens. I just try to do my own thing. Make what you want to make, or what you think people will want.

[Former_Member]

LazyTcrochet, thanks for the info about Lion Brand patterns. I've been meaning to search on Lion Brand, and Red Heart and a couple of other websites to see what their "copyright" policy is.

Inner Hooker, has a pattern for the crochet owl hat, that I think is fantastic. The other thing that I think is fantastic, as well, is that in the bottom of her patterns she allows the maker to use the finished product to sell. I think this is FANTASTIC.

However, as most patterns are inexpensive or even FREE, it does create a problem on a online website such as Etsy. People out bidding/pricing other sellers.

For example, I may be a culprit of this. I used part of Inner Hooker's pattern and a couple of others to come up with some ideas for the cupcake hat I'm selling (still a work in progress). My hat isn't the exact same as other's I've seen, but the CUPCAKE idea isn't new.

If you do a search under cupcake hat, or beanie, you come up with thousands of hats MOST priced around $25 dollars and up. Frankly, I find that outrageous. Having crocheted a fair amount of hats, I know how easy, and fast crochet can be. Pricing is hard under any circumstances, but I just can't see paying that much for a crocheted hat, (knitting another story!).

When I'm stopped on the street and asked about the hats my daughters are wearing, I tell them about Etsy. Then they ask how much and when I say between $15-18 dollars the response is almost always a scoff. I can't help but wonder how many people are storing the idea in their memory banks and going home to attempt to make the same thing.

I don't know how to combat this problem, but I don't think I'm doing anything wrong, either. It's when you see people selling an IDENTICAL item as someone else for $5-10 cheaper than their competitors. I think this undercutting of others degrades Etsy and puts both sellers in a bad way.

We have a lot of things against us. For one, and the BIGGEST, the economy.

Also, there is a lot of talent here, and it shows. The thing we seem to find a lot of is newbie sellers who undercut reputable sellers. But I have no idea how to create a fairness across the board on this one.

I agree with LasyTcrochet, just make what you like. But I'd add, the golden rule! :)

[Former_Member]

"ran across a pattern where the designer said it couldn't be used for profit and couldn't be copied and i laughed myself silly because it was a garter stitch scarf. "

ridiculous!! :) LOL

[knittylittlesecret]

Yeah, I, too, had to laugh at the garter stitch pattern.

I didn't know that Bernat had a selling policy but I will now stay far and clear from them. I generally get all my patterns from Lion Brand but occasionally will go to Bernat or other places online (google search, really). But now that I know that Bernat isn't so keen on selling then I'll definitely stay the heck away.

I think your work will speak for itself. If a pattern is a long crochet/knit then you would obviously charge more. If it's a quick crochet/knit, like you say about the cupcake hat, then you charge less. And also, if your work is good then people will see it and pay for it.

But yes, the economy is our downfall right now. We just have to wait it out and possibly find other avenues of selling.

That's something else I wanted to ask everyone. How do you price your wares?
I base my price on two things: how long it took to make it as well as the cost of the yarn, and then I generally do an etsy search of the product I've made and then see where my knitting fits in, talent wise. If there's an etsy seller who is seriously better than me and his/her work is nicer, then I won't charge as much as them. Unless they're charging 10$ for a knitted hat, in which case they can kiss my needles and I'm charging more!

[Former_Member]

Many companies will allow you to sell items made from their patterns for profit as long as you are NOT selling the pattern. Coats & Clark allows everything made from their patterns to be sold.

Any of my patterns are for 'personal use only' in that you cannot sell the pattern. However, you are free to sell or donate any items you make from those patterns. I always appreciate credit for the pattern design.

I do have items in my shop that were made from a pattern and I've noted that the pattern was 'used with permission'.

As for pricing your work, that can be difficult. Some people use the 3x cost of materials formula but for a complex item that takes 1 or 2 balls of yarn that just doesn't cut it with me.

I use a formula based on
1) cost of materials
2) cost of my time (what I pay myself)
3) other expenses (etsy, paypal fees, booth fees at shows, etc)
4) profit I want for the item.

The total of will give me a pretty good idea of what the item should sell for.

On other items, I'll just go with my 'gut feeling' pricing.

[knittylittlesecret]

Ohhhh I thought "for personal use only" meant that you couldn't make a profit from the pattern. I've seen a few patterns on Etsy that I just LOVE and would love to make for the Etsy shop. I guess, though, that I could always ask the pattern creator for clarification if I'm ever in doubt.

Coats & Clark, eh? I'll have to check them out because I've never heard of them. I love looking at patterns, even if I don't make any of them.

[Former_Member]

Knitty, You probably are aware of many of the products from Coats & Clark.

Aunt Lydia's crochet cotton, Red Heart Yarns, TLC yarns, Boutique yarns, Anchor threads, DMC embroidery threads, Susan Bates hooks are all products from Coats & Clark.

[Former_Member]

I would definitely ask a shop owner if they allow items made from their own patterns to be sold. For my patterns I state that you can sell things locally, but can't place items made from my patterns online...so making a bunch of my finger puppets and taking them to craft fair is fine, but putting them on Etsy is a No-No. (this is mostly because *I'm* trying to sell my stuff online).

Pricing is the biggest pain in the behind! You want to charge a fair price (fair to yourself for all your work too!), but to me, knowing how to crochet and knit and such makes me *not* want to pay several hundred dollars for a handmade shawl or whatnot. HOWEVER, a friend of mine who is a professional photographer told me you are not only charging for the time and the finished product, but also the knowledge or expertise...so while I wouldn't feel like paying as much for something I feel I could make myself, I shouldn't assume that someone who *doesn't* know how to crochet won't think that that's a fair price.

Besides, you can't *make* someone pay an unreasonable amount for something, either they agree that it's worth that price, or they don't buy.

[Former_Member]

"Aunt Lydia's crochet cotton, Red Heart Yarns, TLC yarns, Boutique yarns, Anchor threads, DMC embroidery threads, Susan Bates hooks are all products from Coats & Clark."

@crochetgal, this is FANTASTIC news.

"As for pricing your work, that can be difficult. Some people use the 3x cost of materials formula but for a complex item that takes 1 or 2 balls of yarn that just doesn't cut it with me."

@crochetgal, was not aware of the 3x formula. What I'm finding difficult is that when I make a child's hat, may it be the cupcake pattern or another, I never use a full skein of yarn for any portion. One time I tried making one and then taking it apart and measuring, but each size is different.

Most of the time I agree with the go with your gut method! :) I also check other sellers items, check to see the quality of the ad, i.e. pictures, and also their work. Then I make an assumption on what would be comparable. It can be so hard though, when I know that a seller is asking a lot of money for their product because they have a lot of expenses such as professional photography. But then I think, that sometimes, they barter for it, and is it really an expensive they should be passing down?? IDK

I only have experience with my crochet. It's quick, easy, and comes out very nicely for a child's hat that's going to take some abuse. I knit as well, but I wouldn't dream of selling something I knit for as cheap as my crochet. For example, I can crochet a hat is about 3-4 hours. But I'm only a week into a knitting project and only 1/4 of the way done on a cowl. While that hat may be about $15 for time and materials, I would sell the cowl for $60 or up depending on size. And for the most part, this is comparable.

What I hate, and what I was trying to write earlier was what @knittylittlesecret was saying about the hat. $10 for a knitted hat, yup, their undercutting!!

[Former_Member]

lol, undercutting, or buying in bulk from china and putting an embellishment on it. . . heard they did that with some wigs awhile back :(

[Former_Member]

Yes, I do carry the entire line from Coats & Clark.

"Aunt Lydia's crochet cotton, Red Heart Yarns, TLC yarns, Boutique yarns, Anchor threads, DMC embroidery threads, Susan Bates hooks are all products from Coats & Clark."

If anyone is in need of something and they can't find it locally, feel free to convo me. I order from the warehouse at least once every month and don't mind ordering whatever you are looking for as well!

Pricing is always different for everyone. I've seen some gorgeous pieces both knit and crocheted and while I probably could make them myself, I quite often just don't have the time or inclination to do it. So I purchase from someone who does.

Baby things are my downfall. I really detest doing them and will try to decline orders at all costs. Even when I need a baby outfit for someone I'll have a friend who enjoys making them do one for me.

[LazyTcrochet]

Me too crochetgal! I used to make baby things, but I just don't like to any more. I have one local lady who calls me every time she needs a baby gift. I've done a few sets, but finally referred her to someone else last time.

[Former_Member]

CoffeeCountyCrochet says

I don't think it matters if you are making the same thing as someone else, as long as-- like you said-- the pattern is one you are using legitimately.
---------------

O wholeheartedly agree. I have things in my shop made from patterns I buy on etsy and give credit to the pattern maker and a link to their shop for those interested in the pattern. I also develop relationships with pattern makers because it is an important skill I don't have yet so it also helps my business to be up on new trends. I think if you give proper credit when appropriate then you are fine.

Plus, 85% or more of what I do is freehand but I can't imagine in the world of crochet I am the only one to make slouchy hats the way I do even though I don't follow a pattern per se.

In crochet, I don't know about knitting, there are only so many stitches in the world so at some point there will be duplication. A beanie is a beanie. I have seen color combinations by other people that has inspired me to make something. I don't copy their items - but can't deny the inspiration.

@Crochetgal - I use the same pricing formula. For anything I put on clearance or sale I do use the 3x materials.

and that is interesting info on Coats and Clark!

[designbcb]

i used to get convos all the time from people chastising me about pricing so low. I also get people at craft shows who look at my prices and think my they're too high/ I have a formula that took me weeks to work out and it serves me pretty well.

there's so much that's subjective to pricing as well as objective. the only one who has to live with it is you..

[Former_Member]

What's wrong with doing baby items??