How is the box size determined?

[RedNebulaStudios]

Okay, hopefully I can simplify my odd situation. :)

Among the items I sell are:

- Medium prints (8.5" x 11")
- Large prints (18" x 24")

The two applicable box sizes I use are:

- Flat box (11.75" x 10.5" x 2.5")
- Tube (25" x 3" x 3")

Ideally, if someone ordered just a medium print, I'd like it to ship unrolled in the flat box. If someone ordered just a large print, that would ship rolled in the tube. If someone ordered both a medium and large print combined, I would roll them together and ship them in the tube size.

I thought I'd worked out a good way to do this, by marking my medium prints as 11.5" x 1" x 1" and my large prints as 25" x 1" x 1". In theory, a single medium print would go to the flat box, but if there was a large print in the order, both would fit in the tube.

The problem is, a single medium print is defaulting to the tube, and I can't figure out why! I want to attach a higher package fee to the tubes, as a tube costs significantly more than a box - but I don't want someone who's just buying a single medium print to be charged for a tube.

Does anyone know how the CS is determining which size of box is "smallest"? I fiddled with the box sizes, and it doesn't seem to be going by either USPS's measurements (length + girth) or by volume (length x width x height), so I'm totally baffled! It DOES go to the correct box if I simply remove the tube from my list of packages, but then I would have nothing to ship my large prints in.

I know this is a bit of a wonky problem to explain, and I'm not sure if anyone has an answer. I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask, though!

[CkshopperVintage]

I'm not sure if I can provide the help that I get from Kathy or Pat, but thought I would give it a shot. Do you have "Use common Etsy package sizes" checked? Apparently it's best not to have that option checked so that the calculator will use the package preferences you have listed.

[RedNebulaStudios]

No problem, I appreciate the response! I do have the "Use common Etsy package sizes" option turned off. I've got a few specific box sizes I use for pretty much everything, so it made more sense to build my own preferences. :)

[CkshopperVintage]

:-) What if you made your medium prints 10" instead of 11"? I know I have to tweak some of my dimensions a bit smaller in order to make them fit into boxes and envelopes I want to use.

[RedNebulaStudios]

Hm, I just tried that, but got the same result. If I remove the tube as an option altogether, it does then go to the correct box, so it doesn't look like it's a matter of it not fitting... it just decides the tube is the better option for some reason!

If worse comes to worse, I'll just eat the extra cost of the tube and reduce its package fee. I suppose I could attach a handling fee to large prints only. They sell much more rarely than my medium prints, so I don't think it'll be too big a deal in the long run! i just can't figure out why it's getting calculated the way it is.

Such a puzzle! But I think the calculated shipping will be worth it in the long run.

[CkshopperVintage]

Does the shipping come out to be the same cost, except for the fact you've got a handling fee to subsidize the cost of the tube? Yes, maybe attaching a fee to the large prints will be the solution if it is bypassing your flat box.

I hear you. I've got an issue with the Flat Rate Envelopes not calculating correctly for me. I have to make my item dimension 3" in order for the calculator to put it into the FRE; if my dimension is 2" or 1" (which is what the item dimension actually is), the calculator bypasses the FRE (legal and regular-size and bubble mailer) and calculates it as First Class and for about $3 more than for FRE. I've contacted Support and they are working on it because they have no idea why it's doing that.

For the most part, CS is working well...outside of the pesky Flat Rate Envelopes!

[RedNebulaStudios]

Yep, the shipping would be the same but for the additional cost of the tubes themselves. It's about a 50 cent difference - not too bad unless I start selling a whole bunch of large prints!

In any case, yeah... I was reading about the troubles with FREs! I hope they'll get that worked out for you!

[Former_Member]

Hi Sarrah and Chirs - you two were chatting late for me! Chris you suggested what I would have suggested, sorry that didn't work.

You laid out your question very well Sarrah. I went over it and over it and your logic is sound and it should work. But like Chris's problem, for some reason it is not.

I would only suggest you write to Etsy support laying out your question. The calculator is doing some weird things with fitting for sure. Since we can't get anyone here - it's the only way to get a possible answer.

[vintageNCtreasures]

Good Morning Sarrah,
Thanks Chris for trying to help. I'm usually offline after 7:30 pm (est).

My first thoughts are I noticed you're putting a bigger dimension than the prints actually are.

The dimensions on your items need to be the item size or smaller to get CS to work sometimes.

The small medium print is going in your tube by putting these measurements. 11.5x1x1.

If your prints are 11x8.5 you need to probably try putting 10x7x2 on them to get them in your box.

I do see what you're referring to, you want both to go in a tube if one of each are purchased.

But I think as long as you put 1x1 as the medium prints measurements CS is going to put them in that tube even though that tube is 25" long.

Maybe like Chris mentioned, add a handling fee just on that tube in your package preferences so it would only be added per order.

Also with the large box size you have 25x3x3 if someone was to buy 4 of your large prints, CS would only put 3 (hopefully) in that tube, and the 4th one would be another tube unless you can only get 3 prints in the tube.

*****************************************
Below is part of an email I got from James (member advisior shipping)
"With regard to how items fit in boxes, our algorithm will fit things in using 3D geometric modeling. As a result, when it sees a listing that is 5"x5"x5", for example, and then sees a package preference of 5"x5"x5", it will view this as a perfect match. Items will seldom be exactly the whole inches the seller indicates, so the thought is that there will be some extra room. If a seller needs to add packing material, they should include that in the size of the item so that we can choose a box that will allow for that extra room. Sellers should also always round their measurements up, never down."
**************

Good morning Kathy.......!

[Former_Member]

Hiya Pat! Very good points! I hope Sarrah comes back and tries what you have suggested. I didn't think of them being too small.

[RedNebulaStudios]

Kathy - I may end up doing that. I'm also having a couple of minor fit issues which I think have to do with how it handles fractional dimensions, but I'm still liking the CS overall.

Pat - Thank you for the suggestions! It doesn't seem to be the case though. If I remove the tube as an option, the print then defaults to the correct box, so I know it fits in there. I just can't figure out what algorithm it's using to determine the tube is the better choice.

Regarding the number of prints, it'll actually allow 9 large prints (3" x 3" = 9 square inches) in a tube, which I tested and verified. That's about the limit of how many big prints I'd try to put in a tube anyway! It's also handling combinations just like I'd expect, so 8 large plus 2 medium, etc., so that's a good thing. :)

I think I've got a good enough workaround for the moment (just setting the box and tube to be the same package fee and adding a little handling to my large prints to cover the extra tube cost), but I'll let you all know if there are any updates!

[CkshopperVintage]

Hey Kathy and Pat! I managed to help someone yesterday with CS (they posted on the Main Forums) and my suggestion worked! Yippee! Now, if I could only fix my own problem!

I figured you two would be able to help Sarrah. I'm West Coast time, so it was too late for you two to be on so I thought maybe I'd give it a shot! However, I think I'll leave the job to you two!
:-)

[Former_Member]

Chris, don't be silly - you are doing a fine job. You made the same suggestions I would have made. There is nothing like someone using it and trying to work through their own problems, to help others. Please keep jumping in!

Sarrah, sounds like you have a work around. That's good at least. I'm not sure how the dimensional 3D voodoo computer works. For a while it wouldn't put 8 items in a medium flat rate box that I knew fit perfectly. Then finally it did. But it should put those same items, in basically the same configuration, only 12 this time in a large flat rate box - but it only puts 10. It's a mystery.

Mostly I sell under 12 of those at a time so it isn't much of a problem, it's just weird.