New Etsy policy

[Former_Member]

I received a letter from Etsy informing me that a Washington Redskins shirt I had listed was removed because of a new policy that prohibits the sale of anything Redskins-related because it is offensive to Native Americans.

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Hello,

This is Patrick from Etsy's Marketplace Integrity team. Thanks for being a part of Etsy. I'm reaching out today to let you know about a clarification in our policies that affects items listed in your shop.

Our policies have long prohibited the sale of items that demean people based upon race, ethnicity, religion, gender, gender identity, disability, or sexual orientation. Native American groups have consistently advocated that the term “redskin(s)” is disparaging and damaging. As such, Etsy cannot accommodate the sale of items that include the Washington Redskins name or logo. You can read more about this decision here: https://blog.etsy.com/news/2014/policy-update-redskins/

Etsy respects your right to support your favorite football team, and we do not believe that any fans have any racist feeling or intent. However, as Native Americans find this term unacceptable, these items can no longer be permitted in our marketplace. I've deactivated any listings in your shop that include these items. In addition, I've credited these listing fees back to your Etsy bill, and I'd like to apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Please note that you're still welcome to sell items that contain the team colors and location, but items containing the name or the logo will no longer be allowed. Please let me know if you have any questions about this; I'd be happy to help.

Regards,
Patrick
Etsy Marketplace Integrity
http://www.etsy.com/guidelines

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Goodbye free market; hello, Communist China.

[Former_Member]

Communist China? Seriously? The term redskin is a pejorative term.

[Former_Member]

If you ban everything that might hurt someone's feelings it is no longer a free market. There are PLENTY of things that could be considered offensive on Etsy -- the Washington Post is already poking fun at them for their half-asses attempt at taking a stand against racism: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/09/09/etsy-bans-redskins-name-and-logo/

I don't believe in entities or governments telling fee-paying and tax-paying adults what they can and can't purchase. The term is dated and it's stupid to get offended by a silly word. If it really hurts your feelings, don't buy things that promote it.

I'm native. Chippewa Sault Ste Marie tribe. Doesn't bother me a bit.

[Former_Member]

Wrong link. My apologies. Here we go: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/09/10/eleven-non-redskins-items-that-etsy-...

There are articles like this popping up all over the internet now. It is selective PC. If you ban one offensive thing, you have to do it all.

To play devil's advocate:

I'm part Irish. If I got a bunch of people to sign a petition for Etsy to ban things that represent the Irish as drunks because we see them as offensive, should they?

[ThreeRiversForge]

What makes this even worse is that it's based on a complete lie. There are millions of indians that don't have a problem with the name and Etsy is only listening to a vocal minority that wants to control things.

Not only is it PC garbage, but it only demonstrates how wrong the Etsy management is because they happily allow things that demean "un cool" groups.

[CedarChestVintage]

But why is it ok to say things and create products with words like "white trash" "whitey" "whiteboy" "redneck" etc.? I'm not saying "redskins" is a nice thing to say, but there does seem to be a real double standard in the way some groups' racist terminology is accepted while others' is not. I'm not solely speaking of etsy here, either.

[Former_Member]

I totally support Etsy in this instance. They have the right, as a private business, to ban any item or seller on their platform as they have silenced many of us on this team. I find this term pejorative toward a community of people as I do any other. Etsy felt that they needed to change a policy because of public opinion and outcry. When enough people stand up for what they believe, things change. If you don't like the use of other labels, take action. Otherwise, you have to accept the consequences.

Further, in this particular case, unless the item is vintage or a seller has obtained a licence from the mark owners, it is illegal to sell items that use their copyrighted or trademark characters, graphics or use their name in a description, title or tag. I acknowledge that vintage is usually not subject to this, but I would hazard a guess that in this instance Etsy felt that the ban should apply to all items on the site using that term.

[ThreeRiversForge]

Leslie, I question the need to "stand up". That eliminates any agency that etsy has, absolving them of responsibility. Basically, you're saying that unless you can get a million people to agree that "Kill Whitey" t-shirts are a bad thing, you have to simply "accept the consequences."

Whether I get a million people to agree or not is irrelevant. Consensus does not make something right, scientific, legal or ethical. If Redskin is bad, only because a vocal minority says so, what else is on this site that meets that same requirement? Nazi stuff? Shirts and hats with Chairman Mao and Che/Castro on them? Why not? They were all mass-murderers, after all.

Why

And just because you consider the term pejorative doesn't mean that it is - just that you think so. Remember, the Redskins are calling themselves that. It's their name. Just like the Steelers are calling themselves the Steelers, the Redskins are identifying themselves, not calling someone else that. For it to be pejorative would be like calling themselves the Incompetent Dodos or the Bumbling Idiots.

I would ask you simply this: why does etsy have the right, as a private business, to set rules, policies and decisions as they see fit, but the Redskins don't have the same right? You don't like the name, don't buy their products or watch their games. Etsy doesn't like the name, they can ban it from their venue. But that's a far cry from raising a mob to force a name to be changed. That's the danger of political correctness and mob rule - because the next time it just might be you.

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Walt “Red Hawk” Brown, chief of Virginia’s Cheroenhaka Nottoway Tribe, says he embraces Native American symbols and words being incorporated into this country’s social fabric and doesn’t find the term “Redskins” offensive.

“It doesn’t refer to me as a native person,” Brown says, “It refers to the players.”

[Former_Member]

Vaughn, Etsy has the right to ban any item they don't want sold on the site. Once you have agreed to their terms and conditions and set up shop here you agree to abide by them. As a lawyer that has specialised in human rights for the past thirty years I can tell you categorically that the only way that something is changed in this world is to challenge the issue. Referring to any person in a way that is objectionable to them is wrong. You refer to one person that says that he doesn't find the term demeaning. Obviously, there are many that do. I am one of them.

You can call it political correctness if you wish. I call it doing the right thing. Your opinion will not stop me from trying to educate and validate the people of this world to achieve righteousness for those that I can reach.

I am a realist and understand that I cannot change the mind and actions of some that hold different beliefs and values from me. What I can do, in this instance, is remove myself from the company of those persons. Which I will do.

[ThreeRiversForge]

Leslie, that etsy has the right is irrelevant to the discussion. You said that a person must endure anything unless they can get enough people together to stand up against it and force a company to change.

"If you don't like the use of other labels, take action. Otherwise, you have to accept the consequences."

That's incorrect. As a lawyer, you should know that whether or not a person can get a group together has no bearing on the legality of an issue. If you want to claim that Redskin is pejorative and you want it removed, your argument fails because you're happily letting other pejorative phrases go by the wayside.

That means you're not against the use of pejorative phrases, just this one particular case. That's bias.

More to the point, we're not talking about law. Etsy took a moral position and is hiding behind the ToS to try and claim the high ground. The law is firmly on the side of the Washington Redskins franchise and there are tens of thousands of indians that like the name and agree with keeping the name. You and Etsy simply chose to ignore that side of the issue. Yes, I highlighted one individual. You used yourself as an example from the other side, so we're even.

If you and etsy were to fight to remove all pejorative phrases from the website, you wouldn't hear a peep out of me. The fact that you're not is very telling.

[Former_Member]

Well, nothing is selling here anyway. Whatever. I googled this site and reviews last night.

[Former_Member]

Sadly, Etsy claims to be a free market of ideas, but in all honesty, it’s only the ideas they agree with.

[Former_Member]

We really should have all our discussions private, I think.

[Former_Member]

Please note this is a public forum - if you wish to speak more freely, I’d recommend a private thread.

[Former_Member]

Most discussions on this team SHOULD be private - be aware that public threads can be read by everyone, including those not on the team.