Unending black hole of "seller support" in trying to resolve a 3 year old technical issue

[AutoDrive]

I've tried jumping through the hoops of opening a support ticket (several times), but all I EVER get are ridiculous non-sequitur responses that wreak of "money saving AI" or just really poorly trained staff. This firewall created by Etsy to "handle" support is a well-established problem, and has been discussed ad nauseum... with Etsy making clear it is satisfied with it's "we get it right sometimes" service levels.

So, the specific technical issue that prompted my most recent effort to get assistance... every few weeks, I get a huge glaring warning about an "IP takedown" on one of my listings. Problem is... there are no listings being taken down. The only instance of a takedown I've ever had was over 3 years ago, a single listing removed as a result of vexation litigation Subaru. While the one listing was literally a Subaru licensed product, you took it down. Fine, whatever. It's dumb, because Etsy removed an officially licensed product... but fine. Subaru is welcome to shoot itself in the foot. And Etsy is welcome to take down items that aren't actually IP infringements... but for the last 3+ years, every few weeks, I get this ridiculous bright orange banner warning, telling me I'm a bad person and Etsy had to step in and make me behave by taking down my "infringing" listing. This is clearly either a bug in the platform, or it's a really weird use of resources to continually badger and belittle a seller... you know, one of the people who generates revenue for the site. But I can't get it fixed because (see first paragraph), Etsy Support is behind an impenetrable firewall. I imagine the customer support executives are proud of their "low" inbound issue rate.

[UniqueGiftOrnaments]

well, all car makers have their names and models trademarked. It would be wise to research before you post anything else. Any more take-downs and the shop could be closed permanently. And just for info, there is no third-party permission. It has to be given by the automakers themselves.

[AutoDrive]

Great example of getting bogged down in NOT the topic. But, since you are sharing your IP law expertise, I'll share mine. I'm not an IP attorney, but I've got 16 US patents, a stack of copyrighted material, and a few trademarks to my name. I have spent countless hours working directly with patent attorneys in perfecting "the art" in filings, both for my own IP and in a prior life where I served on a Fortune 50 tech company's patent committee. Again, not an attorney... but I've got this part covered fairly well, including an actual 2-party license agreement. And finally... that isn't the topic of my post.

Thanks,

[steelhipdesign]

@AutoDrive 

Going to that trouble and expense, I'm sure you know how devasting it is when people use your IP without permission or payment.  

Edited to add:

I think the notice is what I've termed an "historical" strike.  The TM holder wants to remove all their IP references/images in a shop's sales history and reviews.  The only way to do that is telling Etsy to remove those instances.  You can tell that's the issue if you see "This listing is no longer available" in a review (and the photo is gone) and, in the sales history, a page that doesn't have all 24 slots filled (but excluding the first and last page).  

The good news - as a seller you don't have to do anything and these "historical" strikes don't seem to have any repercussions unlike current ones. It's just a formality.  

[PillowDetails]

Is the "technical issue" your items being removed?  Sorry, not sure I understand your confusion.

[CarpetCollectionAU]

@PillowDetails  I thin the OP feels there is a "technical" glitch which results in notification of IP Infringement / Takedown but no listings are actually "taken down"?

Strange, I was unaware that owners of Motor Vehicle OP waived their rights to "toys" which are "handmade". Or is a USB a supply?

[AutoDrive]

No. The issue is in the second paragraph. I keep getting a banner message telling a listing has been taken down. The ONLY listing ever taken down was over 3 years ago. There's no reason for the once-ever 3 years-ago event for continually pop up in my dashboard every few weeks.

[AutoDrive]

No.

[BagmakerSupply]

@AutoDrive: Obviously you need to speak with a qualified intellectual property (IP) attorney, but the problem may  be the way you are titling your listings and that you have no attribution or disclaimers for the various trademarks you are using (presumably without licensing) to market your products. An example would be 'iPhone Case' vs 'My Phone Case for iPhone'. The former implies that the case is made by Apple (and if it is not then it is counterfeiting), the latter should be okay but Apple can still complain that their trademarks are being used without permission.

It is possible that you are the victim of a glitch, or it may be that you are getting a poorly worded warning that a listing has triggered a potential deactivation.

If it is a 'warning' it is almost impossible to speculate on what combination of possibly multiple factors constitute the trigger that flags a listing, but Etsy is cracking down on what they feel inappropriate. Reselling and copyright and trademark infringements is a always large factor. Since Etsy is now also factoring descriptions in search, they along with titles, tags, and materials (and possibly even alt tags if you are using them) are all probably being checked. And the bots are also "reading" images.

[AutoDrive]

This is NOT an IP issue or question. The IP was brought up to offer back story for the current 'glitch' as you put it. Much like many of the responses here, Etsy gets bogged down in the issue the moment they hear "IP"... but if I don't mention the IP back story, they get confused again when they read the actual message I keep getting because it says something about IP. It's like all thought process shuts off as soon as the letters "IP" appear.

The problem is, it is a "warning" for a non-existent issue. It is like a flag has been set to "remind" me every few weeks for the rest of my Etsy life about one event in 2020.

[CarpetCollectionAU]

@AutoDrive It may be that you consider the IP Warning to be a "glitch, and that is OK

But it is difficult to see how your product differs from, say, a garment made from "licensed" fabric which is then sold commercially, using the IP of the Licensee.

It is OK to use the "licensed" fabric for personal use, but, when the "Brand" or "TM" is used to promote the garment, then that is when IP becomes an issue.

[After9Marbles]

@AutoDrive Not to your question but the USB in the photo says 3.0 and the description says 2.0

I would also be interested in the brand of USB. I am super cautious of what I plug into my devices. Some of the cheap brands dont actually have the data stated and delete older data so you dont notice. Not saying yours do that just that may help your sales as more people are careful with data and security knowing what brand it is. 

Same goes for the cars. Are they hotwheels? I assume they are since they look to be. Mentioning that may also help people find you. 

[UniqueGiftOrnaments]

@AutoDrive    With all your patents and copyrights, one would think you would know better than to use the car trademarks. And there is no 2nd or 3rd party permission. With all your "knowledge," you should know permission has to be from the original owner of the name. It doesn't matter if we are off topic, we are not supposed to help infringers.

[AutoDrive]

It really doesn't seem to matter to you that I've already shared above in my previous response to you that I have appropriate 2-party licenses in place because then you wouldn't get to wag your finger at me. Thanks so much for weighing in on NOT the issue.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

This is technical issues, sellers are trying to help.

It's all we can do, as we have no access to any account.

so, if you don't like the replies you are getting

what is it you want us to do?

[SugarTaffySoap]

@AutoDrive  Glitch or not, I don't know why you just don't have your attorney contact their legal department. You're not going to get your issue solved in the forums. 

[JMOldeVintage]

@AutoDrive  - You stated  "every few weeks, I get a huge glaring warning about an "IP takedown" on one of my listings." and then go on to mention that nothing has been taken down.

Confusing yes, though there have been reports of shops receiving DMCA's on sold items that are no longer for sale in their shop.

Then, possibly depending on your approach to the help tickets you're sending, realize that the minute a DMCA/IP Violation is mentioned, Etsy help reps probably are not going to help, they may be instructed not to help. Because a DMCA, anything to do with IP Violations is considered a Legal matter. 

You state you have a qualified IP lawyer & if the warnings - glitch or not - are that bothersome or have you thinking that "something else is going on", I'd suggest you have your attorney contact Etsy Legal & leave the headaches to him/her. 

[AutoDrive]

@JMOldeVintage , you've hit the nail on the head with "there have been reports of shops receiving DMCA's on sold items that are no longer for sale in their shop." 

That's all I'm trying to get fixed... a bug. And paying $300/hr for an attorney to talk with a Etsy legal department seems not only a waste of time and money, but also not a logical approach to fixing a bug. Attorneys don't know technical issues. They know law. And this is a technical issue, not a law issue (which, @CraftyCornishMaids and @SugarTaffySoap is why I posted this in the Technical Issues forum). At no point did I ever claim that the TECHNICAL ISSUE I am experiencing was the IP takedown (over 3 years ago) itself. In very plain English, I stated that the issue was a banner popping up every few weeks... for the last 3+ years... telling me there was a takedown, and that an email was sent (no email is sent, no products are affected, ergo no actual takedown has occurred when I get the banner). I have attempted to address this with Etsy directly for a little over 2 years, after about the 5th time the banner popped up, but they clearly haven't addressed it, as the issue continues. As I mentioned in one of my replies above, I have tried communicating the issue without bringing up the term "IP" at all, but when I am asked to provide the exact message in the banner, they see the word "IP" and their brains turn off completely to the fact that this is not an IP issue. I was hoping by posting here, as a last resort, to get some kind of pointer toward a resolution, a path to customer support that didn't shut down on the mere sight of "IP" in the message, or perhaps a rare Etsy staffer/moderator type who could get the issue escalated. My mistake. @JMOldeVintage's quote above is the first to seemingly understand the issue is NOT about IP, but a technical issue. That comment also indicates this is a "known" issue... that Etsy doesn't seem to care to address.

[CraftyCornishMaids]

@AutoDrive 

not sure why you tagged me to berate about IP issues, I never mentioned that at all,

what I asked, is what you expect us other sellers to do, as you have posted in the sellers forum for us to help you.

[SmudgePlant]

Is it possible that the Subaru listing from 3 years ago is still in your "Inactive" or "Sold Out" folder and you can just delete it to get rid of the recurring banner?

[EphemeralExpressions]

@AutoDrive  I dunno, but it seems like this may be the issue, or at least something worth pursuing further.  Stuff on the internet lasts forever, and if a listing at one time had an IP issue, it could possibly be out there somewhere; if one sold, perhaps even from an old review.  Perhaps Subaru uses bots in the same way Etsy does, and crawls the internet for what they determine as infringements.

Just guessing, of course, but in the same way people can favorite OOAK sold out items, maybe an IP owners can issue "take down" notices of a previously sold item, but no longer listed?  Since there is nothing to "take down" because there is not an active listing on Etsy, all you're getting is a banner warning.

[ZehOriginalArt]

Have you tried getting a callback so you can talk with an actual person? I have found this helpful especially if I am friendly and keep any frustration to myself. Others have not had luck, but when one avenue fails, another may work. Here is a link: https://help.etsy.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?segment=selling#issue_sell_manage_listings-callback

[SugarTaffySoap]

@AutoDrive   Chat support can tell you if your shop is in good standing. If it isn't maybe consider closing and reopening a new shop. 

[AutoDrive]

It is.

[AutoDrive]

@CraftyCornishMaids, since you asked-- "not sure why you tagged me to berate about IP issues, I never mentioned that at all,"

I didn't.

I tagged you as follows-- "which, @CraftyCornishMaids ... is why I posted this in the Technical Issues forum"

Because you "berated" me with-- 

"This is technical issues, sellers are trying to help."

I used your name in context with your comment. Words.